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Post by Claire on May 31, 2013 2:51:56 GMT 1
Reading circle selection - Dream of Fair Horses by Patricia Leitch Hi all getting this one off to an early start! The June author of the month will be Patricia Leitch and the reading circle selection tie-in will be Dream of Fair Horses (aka Fields of Praise in the USA so if you have that edition its also fine). Discussion will start in about 2 weeks or so. Please let me know if you need a copy or if you have a copy to spare. Also bear in mind this is a very cheap book to buy in the UK (less than Β£3 on Amazon or ebay) so it may be more cost effective to buy a copy you can keep rather than wasting money paying postage to send a borrowed copy back.
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Post by fizz on May 31, 2013 12:25:41 GMT 1
Can I borrow one? The nice lady in our local po lets me send a paperback for a 1st class letter.
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Post by Claire on Jun 1, 2013 13:38:13 GMT 1
I'm lending a copy to rosie, maybe she could pass it on to you Fizz. Or has anyone else got a spare?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 15:06:59 GMT 1
I'm lending a copy to rosie, maybe she could pass it on to you Fizz. Or has anyone else got a spare? I can post it on to Fizz if needs be. Thanks Claire btw.
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Post by fizz on Jun 1, 2013 16:50:13 GMT 1
Thanks Rosie!
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Post by kunuma on Jun 2, 2013 20:10:35 GMT 1
I would say that anyone who doesn't like Jinny will like Gill in this book, as she is pretty much the antithesis of Jinny. Just to completely buck the trend, though I am an ardent PL fan, and think this is a good book, the ending makes it my least favourite of all her books! Won't say any more until everyone has read it!
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Post by haffyfan on Jun 2, 2013 20:31:49 GMT 1
I'll have a look but think i might have sold my spare on ebay recently. I'm probably the only person that does, but i adore the cover on the hardback, i also prefer the American title Fields of praise. Last Summer To ride (and Free Rein - Km peyton) were also more appropriate titles than the English counterparts i always thought.
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Post by fizz on Jun 2, 2013 20:53:38 GMT 1
No spoilers please !!!!!!!
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Post by Claire on Jun 2, 2013 22:09:34 GMT 1
I like both British and American titles of the book. With the other title, I do agree that Last Summer to Ride is a helluva lot better than Janet Young Rider, although A Horse for the Holidays wasn't a bad title.
Yup no more spoilers about the ending, it will no doubt be THE talking point when we start discussing the book!
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Post by jinglerebel on Jun 6, 2013 1:05:17 GMT 1
I must look into getting another copy for my nieces.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 14:02:49 GMT 1
Just to say I've got this now and will get on with it....
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Post by Claire on Jun 10, 2013 19:48:34 GMT 1
Poll added. I will start discussion at the weekend, but if you haven't finished it by then don't worry just join in when you're ready (but watch out for spoilers!)
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Post by susanb on Jun 10, 2013 20:17:10 GMT 1
eek! I'm behind...haven't even started...will have to make up for lost time this weekend (I was reading a lot of other stuff.....I may be a little over-committed at the moment ) It's a re-read for me, though, so I should be able to join in even as I'm re-reading!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 6:52:44 GMT 1
I've read this now, Fizz I'll post it on to you today Thanks for posting it to me Claire. I found this book average. I didn't hate it but I didn't much like it either!
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Post by Claire on Jun 14, 2013 11:51:46 GMT 1
Well as you're not a huge Patricia Leitch fan rosie, average is prob not a bad rating from you. Fess up - who voted dreadful? Please justify this vote! I can see the book not appealing to all, but I can't see how anyone can call it dreadful. Promise there'll be no stoning but I would really like to know.
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tamzin
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Post by tamzin on Jun 14, 2013 12:11:45 GMT 1
Well as you're not a huge Patricia Leitch fan rosie, average is prob not a bad rating from you. Fess up - who voted dreadful? Please justify this vote! I can see the book not appealing to all, but I can't see how anyone can call it dreadful. Promise there'll be no stoning but I would really like to know. Claire - it was me!!! I've finished reading it and I really do NOT like this book. I have to say that it's not surprising that I don't like it because I don't usually like this type of book, but I know lots of people recommend this title, so I read it. I found so much about it irritating and hope to post some comments when the discussion starts, but I will try not to be too negative and aim to focus on just a few annoying things, because I want to try and be objective and I don't want to upset people.
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Post by Claire on Jun 14, 2013 20:20:35 GMT 1
Well the discussion looks like its going to be interesting....better get the boxing gloves out... ;D Seriously tho, don't be afraid to criticise, Tamzin (or anyone else) I'm sure nobody's going to take it personally if you don't like the book. I love it, one of my all time favs. Loving reading it again!
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tamzin
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Post by tamzin on Jun 15, 2013 7:12:02 GMT 1
Well the discussion looks like its going to be interesting....better get the boxing gloves out... ;D Seriously tho, don't be afraid to criticise, Tamzin (or anyone else) I'm sure nobody's going to take it personally if you don't like the book. Personally I love it, one of my all time favs. Loving reading it again! Yes, that's what I thought - it should be an interesting discussion when we've got two ends of the spectrum joining in! Looking at the PL poll, and remembering past comments about this book, I'm guessing that I'll be in the minority here!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2013 11:12:19 GMT 1
I'm going to make some comments now, without spoilers, otherwise I'll have forgotten it all by the time we start the discussion. I felt like I was reading a Jinny book. I thought Gill was very much like Jinny (sorry Kunuma!) To me she seemed selfish and self centred. And as for her father! Perdita was just like a grey Shantih. The ending was totally unrealistic in my opinion. On a positive note there was plenty of horse action which kept me interested and I didn't at anytime want to stop reading it which is why I gave it an average rather than anything lower.
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Post by kunuma on Jun 15, 2013 16:56:56 GMT 1
I'm going to make some comments now, without spoilers, otherwise I'll have forgotten it all by the time we start the discussion. I felt like I was reading a Jinny book. I thought Gill was very much like Jinny (sorry Kunuma!) To me she seemed selfish and self centred. And as for her father! Perdita was just like a grey Shantih. The ending was totally unrealistic in my opinion. On a positive note there was plenty of horse action which kept me interested and I didn't at anytime want to stop reading it which is why I gave it an average rather than anything lower. Goody, goody ,,,FIGHT..............handbags at dawn time!! ;D ;D No,no Gill is a shallow girl who doesn't love horses for themselves at all, remember how nasty she is about the non show quality ones that she comes across. She is the ultimate pot hunter (beats Jill Crewe on this one!) because she loves Perdita for being a winner, for being something she can show off on, but when push comes to shove, it's bye bye horsy and hallo boyfriend!) Jinny, on the other hand, risked her own life for Shantih, and truly loved her no matter what, she was her horse and she wouldn't part with her even when people tried to make her and it seemed the 'sensible' option. I agree that I dislike the ending, but it is exactly how someone who only cared about winning would behave - after all she would grow too old for the classes that Perdita was winning in and hence not be able to show her any more. My passion is showing my animals, both dogs and horses, but the idea that they would be happier living with someone else and still being shown, as opposed to remaining with me, is only put forward by those with pound signs in their eyes!
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Post by Claire on Jun 15, 2013 17:25:27 GMT 1
Haha completely disagree with some of what you said kunuma - FIGHT FIGHT!!! ;D ;D ;D No but I think there are 2 ways you can take the end and indeed the way Gill feels about Perdita. But I do agree she is not very likeable in a lot of ways.
Just finishing this off so will add some more in depth comments later tonight.
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Post by kunuma on Jun 15, 2013 17:31:47 GMT 1
Crikey this is going to be a BIG fight, should we book a hall in case it's raining at dawn!!
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Post by Claire on Jun 15, 2013 23:00:00 GMT 1
Seconds out round 1.... ;D
SPOILER ALERT!
If you haven't read the book yet do not read further into this thread!
Well as quite a few of you have read it by now thought I'd start the ball rolling with the discussion proper. Here are a few discussion points to consider:
Gilian - annoying or sympathetic - or both?
The Father - Can anyone like him/agree with his principles? Any idea why Patricia Leitch created him as a character?
The ending - obviously the big talking point in this book is the ending which is not your usual pony book fairy-tale ending. What do you think of it? Do you agree that Gillian was right to sell Perdita and if so why? If you don't why not? Is it meant to be a happy ending?
Lastly do you think the book is better read by an adult/young adult - or can it be read on a child level as well?
Feel free to use these discussion points or ignore them and write whatever you want! (No sarky comments from kunuma about school mistresses please I know the discussion points help some people gather their thoughts)
Well for me, this is one of the best pony books ever written. Whenever I read it I feel literally blown away. I feel it goes beyond a simple pony story into something much deeper, and almost spiritual. This I think however is what puts some people off. I feel it is something of a love or hate book in many ways. I think it is beautifully written, at times lyrical, but at the same time the prose is easy to read.
The character of Gill. Hmmm, not an easy character to like. She is in some ways very snobby. The way she looks down on the riding school kids is not pleasant. But I don't think its horsy snobbery per se, or that she is a pot hunter and I dont think she likes Perdita because she is a winner or a blood pony. I think she is an aesthete who appreciates beauty and wants it to be celebrated. (Probably gets this from her father who is all arts for arts sake!). I certainly don't agree that she is shallow. In fact I think she feels things deeper than those around her which is why she finds it hard to relate to everyday normality such as the workaday ponies and riders. She responds to Perdita in a very emotional way which is why I think Mr Ramsay chooses her to ride. Strangely enough through her love of physical beauty she actually learns to look beyond this as she, initially freaked by Mr Ramsay's scarred face, soon learns to ignore it and love him. Altho selfish in some ways she does love Mr R and part of her reason for wanting desperately to get to Wembley and to win, is to fulfill his dream. I don't like Gill but I do empathise her and understand her to some extent.
Leitch is not going all out to make Gill sympathetic, but as she does with Jinny she provides characters that are so obnoxious it makes her faults seem minor. In this case its Mrs Ramsay who is a hideous woman, a true snob, who goes against a dying man's wishes out of spite and jealousy.
The father - I can't see anyone liking him. He has definitely shaped the rather eccentric personalities of his children and given them that streak of selfishness/ruthlessness. He actually reminds me of the father in The Worlds End books, almost child-like in his desire to do what he wants despite the cost to his family. Quite frankly if you have 7 kids you can't afford to have artistic scruples, he should have put them aside until the children were grown up. I really dont see the purpose of the father character within the plot as it is he who helps Gill reach a decision about Perdita, obviously meant by the author to be the right decision, but as he is such an unsympathetic character it doesn't seem right for it to be coming from him.
The ending - well this is the biggie. You'll either love it or hate it. I loved it and thought it was just right, even though it is quite hard hitting. Kunuma, sorry but I have to totally disagree with your analysis of why Gill gave up Perdita. It was more a case of 'if you love someone set them free.' She had to realise that she could not have provided a proper life for Perdita, they could not afford to keep her stabled and she would have been unhappy stuck in a field - not that they could have found one in the city where they were going to. Keeping her would have actually been the selfish thing and may even have been cruel. Gill's decision certainly didnt have anything to do with getting too old and not being able to show her! Through her decision she also got to learn that you cannot truly 'own' another living creature. If you try to imprison them and mould them into something they are not you risk destroying what you love.
The ending was meant to be - if not happy - uplifting. Gillian was learning to become unselfish and more perceptive. Nor do I think it was unrealistic. Lets face it, it would have had to happen as she really couldn't afford to keep a horse. In fact it was probably more realistic than most of the wish fulfillment happy endings you see in pony books. But at least through realising that she is doing the right thing, Gill is spared some of the misery of losing Perdita.
I found the whole book very emotional. There is the sense that something dark is going to happen throughout. Even from the start when we learn Perdita means 'lost one' - there are lots of other little clues about what will happen. I feel so sad when Mr Ramsay has a heart attack just days before realising his dreams and cannot get to Wembley. Thankfully at least the author lets him find out Perdita has won - it would have been excrutiating if he had just croaked before his housekeeper could give him the news!
I think the book is far more accessible to adults than children. When I read it as a child I didnt understand a lot of it. But as there is a lot of 'normal' pony book stuff and also family stuff in there, it can be read quite easily by a youngster. But I think they may prefer, as I did, some of her more simplistic books like Jump to the Top.
Phew sorry about long post. If I have anything else to say I'll save it for later! Also apologies if its not very grammatical but I am knackered and my brain is running on empty!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 11:24:55 GMT 1
Just getting my handbag out ;D Exactly! I was going to say the same thing. The ending to me just felt like it was rushed. One minute Perdita was the best thing since sliced bread and the next she was sold and Gill goes off to live in a commune. Also the reason it felt like a Jinny book to me was when she mentions the painting with the horses green eyes staring out, bit like the Red Horse thing. I was surprised that Mrs Ramsey or her hideous children didn't do more to noble Gills chances with Perdita. If they hated her that much I would have thought they would have tried to stop her a bit harder than just cancelling the horsebox.
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tamzin
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Post by tamzin on Jun 16, 2013 14:47:34 GMT 1
The ending to me just felt like it was rushed. One minute Perdita was the best thing since sliced bread and the next she was sold and Gill goes off to live in a commune. Also the reason it felt like a Jinny book to me was when she mentions the painting with the horses green eyes staring out, bit like the Red Horse thing. I was surprised that Mrs Ramsey or her hideous children didn't do more to noble Gills chances with Perdita. If they hated her that much I would have thought they would have tried to stop her a bit harder than just cancelling the horsebox. Rosie - I totally agree and thought the same things. These were just SOME of the things which annoyed me. I'm looking back at some of the book and getting some comments together and will post today or in the next couple of days. Isn't it great that we have differences and don't like exactly the same books??? Makes life interesting!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 17:42:17 GMT 1
It does indeed. I'm away for a few days and when I come back this is the first thread I'll read ;D Hope you haven't all bashed each other senseless by then
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Post by Claire on Jun 16, 2013 19:44:41 GMT 1
Isn't it great that we have differences and don't like exactly the same books??? Makes life interesting!!! I totally agree it would be boring if we all liked the same things. Also its interesting to see how different people have a different perspective on the same thing. Sometimes you think, ah I never thought of that and it makes you see the book in a different way. Rosie - have a good trip where-ever you are going! I think the reason Mrs R didn't do anything more to stop Gill taking P to Wembley was cos she didnt think Gill had any chance of getting the money. And she wouldn't have if not for her sister. (That was a bit contrived) Also the people who feel that Gill swapped Perdita for a boyfriend and to go off and live in a hippy commune - it was about a year later when that happened. She was writing about the incident looking back on it. Looking forward to reading your comments Tamzin so I can argue about them discuss them with you! ;D
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Post by kunuma on Jun 16, 2013 21:47:06 GMT 1
Isn't it great that we have differences and don't like exactly the same books??? Makes life interesting!!! I totally agree it would be boring if we all liked the same things. Also its interesting to see how different people have a different perspective on the same thing. Sometimes you think, ah I never thought of that and it makes you see the book in a different way. Rosie - have a good trip where-ever you are going! I think the reason Mrs R didn't do anything more to stop Gill taking P to Wembley was cos she didnt think Gill had any chance of getting the money. And she wouldn't have if not for her sister. (That was a bit contrived) Also the people who feel that Gill swapped Perdita for a boyfriend and to go off and live in a hippy commune - it was about a year later when that happened. She was writing about the incident looking back on it. Looking forward to reading your comments Tamzin so I can argue about them discuss them with you! ;D Yes, OK I was guilty of exaggerating there - I think it's the way she is so self satisfied about the whole boyfriend thing - like, well that horsy stuff was all very interesting, but I've got a real life now! You see all that stuff about how she couldn't live in a field like a common pony!! Well for a start she was living out in a field, unrugged and unshod, with other horses when Gill first found her (and what DID happen to the other horses, one of which was, after all, Perdita's mother?) and anyway hasn't she heard of New Zealand rugs! Shantih managed to live out in one ;D She was after all pure Arab and I'm assuming that Perdita was typical show pony breeding, mix of TB, Welsh and Arab. BUT most of all I hate this, which seems to jeer at what she had with Perdita - "We want to live the laughter that makes the bungalows and the cars, the TROPHIES and the ROSETTES, the desperate possession and empty success seem like half forgotten things, skins of restriction that we cast off long ago" So that was what she thought of the time she spent with Perdita then?
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Post by Claire on Jun 16, 2013 22:53:44 GMT 1
Boxing gloves on again.... ;D BUT most of all I hate this, which seems to jeer at what she had with Perdita - "We want to live the laughter that makes the bungalows and the cars, the TROPHIES and the ROSETTES, the desperate possession and empty success seem like half forgotten things, skins of restriction that we cast off long ago" So that was what she thought of the time she spent with Perdita then? My take on this is that she has realised that the beauty of Perdita, her essence or whatever you want to call it, was enough without rosettes and trophies. She didn't actually need to enter HOYS and win the championship. At the time Gill thought this was the only way that would prove Perdita is the best, (and of course she also did it for Mr R). It doesn't mean she had stopped appreciating Perdita, after all the last lines are about her. Mind you I agree with everyone could have done without that hippy bit - I think a lot of Pat Leitch's own philosophies were coming thru. I think Perdita was an Anglo Arab - correct me if I'm wrong anyone Don't care what you say Kunuma, she could not have afforded to keep P (she couldn't have afforded a NZ rug lol) I think P is better off in her new home being pampered than stuck on an allotment or tethered to some scrubby waste ground (which is how poor kids living in large towns kept their ponies then - I speak from experience, having seen a lot like that) maybe not getting enough food. Of course if Fran had struck the big time they could have been rich and then she could maybe have kept her after all... Anyway where are the other folk who love the book - I'm trying to stem the tide on my own here.... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 6:45:38 GMT 1
Thanks Claire, just had to post this before I go ;D ;D I totally agree with you Kunuma! I'm sure she could have found somewhere for her to go even if it was 50 miles away and on loan, she could visited her occasionally. I felt the American buyers was a bit of a clichΓ©. Right I'm going now and I will return with an even bigger handbag
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