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Post by haffyfan on Oct 31, 2007 15:29:30 GMT 1
???Another plea for help and apologies for length as it's pasted straight from my blog.
...on putting away my new purchses that arrived yesterday....after only two + weeks in transit!!!...I found one was a dreaded 'B'. Now before you get totally the wrong idea I only keep my books in alphabetical order so i can easily check if I have it or not when I spot nice ones on ebay etc. Honest!!! Needless to say the rest of the house is not quite so neat and orderly. I was avoiding the dreaded cleaning by putting them away in the first place. The theory being my other half may think I did some if table is less cluttered? Worth a try anyhow!
Back to dreaded 'B'. Well that is the section where Judith Berrisford falls and is the cause of endless misery. No her books arn't that bad, I rather like them but what is the correct order for the Jackie series....does anyone know? Does anyone know JMB? Does she know herself?
Mine are currently in published order but this itself has flaws. As you can see from the pic my own collection houses several different 'runs' and duplicates of a few titles add to this so I have pictured a selection. I have taken the published date from my first editions wherever possible but I don't have them all so have had to take first published date for some from reprints, so there is a possibility of inaccuracy. Mine are ordered
1 Jackie Won A Pony - 1958- (simple)
2 Ten Ponies And Jackie - 1959 -(getting harder as two published this year but based on fact Babs had no pony)
3 Jackie's Show Jumping Surprise - 1959 - (now the real problems start - Babs owns Patch and Aunt Di marries Steve Rowland....her 'adopted' son Lenny turns up needing help as his father has let out of prison .......no probs yet but read on)
4 Jackie's Pony Patrol - 1961 - (Now Aunt Di lives alone and Patch is her pony and she gives him Babs, we learn the story of Lenny and his father and he goes to live with Di and his father goes to prison)
5 Jackie and the Pony Trekkers - 1963 -(this was badged no 2 when republished by Hodder in the 90's...I don't think full series was published)
6 Jackie's Pony Camp Summer - 1968 -
7 Jackie and the Pony Boys - 1970 -
8 Jackie and The Misfit Pony - 1975 - (Armada badged this as no 3 in the 80's reprints....I think the whole series to date was printed )
9 Jackie On Pony Island -1977 - (Hodder badged this 5 in 90's)
10 Jackie And the Ponby Thieves - 1978 -
11 Jackie And The Phantom Ponies - 1979
12 Jackie and the Moonlight Pony - 1980 - (actually badged 12 by Armada too...from this point they fall into place as Armada's are badged according to date order published and Jackie finally gets a little older.)
13 Jackie and the Pony Rivals -1981 -
14 Jackie and the Missing Show Jumper - 1982-
15 - Change Ponies Jackie - 1983 -
16 Jackie's Steeple Chase Adventure -1984 -
Please, please anyone know the order and or got any more numbered editions to throw into the confusion?
Maybe not as polished or an as likeable character as say Jill but I do think these books deserve recognition amongst the best pony books. They are very wholesome and different from a lot of pony books in that in the early titles there is often a mystery to solve or a baddie involved while still firmly being a pony book. The last few titles are much better, in my opinion, the writing style is slightly different and the mystery element tended to be replaced by a more 'horsey' theme.
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Post by darkhorse on Nov 1, 2007 13:20:44 GMT 1
Very interesting post. I had never noticed this but then again I don't think I have ever sat down and read the Jackie books in any particular order. I have noticed that Claire's website has them in a different order to yours with Showjumping Surprise first pubished in 1972 this would make it fall in with the fact that Patch was given to Babs before this story. I think she also has Jackie on Pony Island as 1961. While on the subject I have noticed both from my own reading and looking on the website that there are quite a few pony book serieses with a confusion of order. These include Jill's series which I had noticed that the paperbacks are in a different order to the hardbacks. Also from the site the Jinny books, the Mary Gervaise series and the Black Stallion books are apparantly in diferent reading order to publication order. Have you ever noticed any of these discrepancies? I wonder why there is such confusion as with most other non-pony series, like the Famous Five/Enid Blyton series there seems to be no confusion at all about the numbering.
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Post by Claire on Nov 1, 2007 21:45:36 GMT 1
Oh dear the dreaded series order. When I was listing the Jackie books on the site I noticed there were some odd discrepancies for instance Jackie on Pony Island. On the publishing details page it says first published 1977 but then further down copyright 1961. I plumped for 1961 as the correct date as thought the later one may have been a revised version. Not sure if anything happens in Pony Island which is out of sync with this date! With Showjumping surprise I had 2 later paperback copies one of which said first published in 1959, the other first published 1972. Most booksellers have the 1972 hardback edition listed as the first edition and I must say I have never come across a 1959 edition anywhere. I wonder if the 1959 date is a mistake, unless anyone has actually got proof that a 1959 edition does exist this could solve the mystery. If a 1959 first edition does exist I cant work out why the book would have been published before Pony Patrol where we first meet Lenny and Babs gets her pony. The only thing I can think of is that she wrote this book afterwards to fill in some background on how Babs got Patch, Lenny, Aunt Di etc, but when you read Showjumping Surprise it seems to assume the reader knows a bit about Lenny, etc, already. All very confusing! Oh by the way I have a copy of Jackies Pony Camp summer which is marked as number 8 which just seems to add to the confusion... I had a similar experience to yours Haffyfan with the Mary Gervaise Georgie and Spot series. If you read the books in the publishing order events become totally mixed up, so I sat down and wrote out the events in a chronological order which is how I arrived at the reading order I have on the website! I may have another look at the Jinny series too, the numbers are different to the publishing order as with Jackie series however this is even more puzzling as the paperbacks were the first editions not reprints as with the Jackie series. Havent read them for a while so cant remember the exact sequence of events. As darkhorse says what is it about pony books and the problems with order? I think the only way you can sort it out is to do as I did with the Mary Gervaise books and read the whole series and then write out the events as you read them. That then would be the correct order. After all its the reading of the books which is most important for enjoying the books rather than the publishing order. (tho of course that is important for collectors) Wonder if anyone else can solve the amazing mystery of the pony books series order??
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 2, 2007 13:01:31 GMT 1
Thanks Both of you. Just to add to the confusion i have a 1st of pony island (77) and two pb's of Surprise (72 and 77/8) both stating 1959 as first published. Maybe as Claire suggested she decided to tell us the history or maybe the publishers chose the order they printed the books? I guess, as Claire said, in the scheme of things it's not important...but er...um...I do like my books in order. darkhorse the Jill's are the same. My 1st of pony Jobs states it is the 8th. Which works as Jill has left school and Pony trek see's her looking back prior to embarking on her first proper job. They did not appear to be numbered again until the 70's when Knight made it no 6, which seemed to stick. Having not read The Georgie and spot series yet their order on the shelf has not concerned me and My Jinny's are in number order as I have all the 80's numbered copies, but am intrigued to look at dates now.....The 70's ones aren't numbered though. I agree too all non pony books do seem to have clear cut orders....even the Chalet school non Brent Dyer fill in's fit into the original order no disputes!
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 2, 2007 21:51:06 GMT 1
sorry can't reduce size of pic?
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 3, 2007 18:41:49 GMT 1
Adding even more to the confusion surrounding Surprise - this is the reply I had to my enquiry regarding a first edition for sale in AU. I do not have a good explanation of this mystery. Our book is 1973, stated as a first edition, with an ISBN printed in it. ISBN's didn't appear until about 1968, so it can't possibly be a 1950's book. Also, I can't find any useful biographical or bibliographical information about the author. We have had a number of her books and several were published in England in the 1950's, particularly dog books, so she was certainly around then.One of my copies def says 1972 ??
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Post by Claire on Nov 3, 2007 21:37:22 GMT 1
I have seen a 1972 supposed first edition (hardback) for sale in the past, and also seen 1973 hardbacks which purport to be first editions but definitely arent. However just to throw another spanner in the works just noticed that there is a 1972 Armada pb ed for sale in Australia which suggests that there was a hardback edition sometime before 1972 whether it was 1959 or not who knows... The trouble is some of these books may be incorrectly dated by booksellers, without actually seeing them it's inconclusive.
Forget about the mysteries of the pyramids, the bermuda triangle and Atlantis, the mystery of Jackie's Showjumping Surprise is much more perplexing! ;D
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Post by Claire on Nov 3, 2007 21:55:35 GMT 1
Oops just re-read the post with the message from bookseller where he/she says it is a stated first edition!! Didnt see that at first, how come there are definitely copies dated 1972? Misprint or was the 73 ed a revised edition?
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Post by poglepie on Nov 6, 2007 16:32:21 GMT 1
This is all very intriguing! Having whetted my appetite for a mystery I have been punting around my reference books and on the web - all to no avail - I am amazed at how little info there is on someone who was a reasonably prolific author. I think you may be right Claire about a printing error for the date of 1959 for Jackie's Showjumping Surprise - like you I've never seen a hardback that early! Still I'll keep ferreting about, maybe between us all we can solve the mystery!
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Post by garej on Nov 10, 2007 17:37:41 GMT 1
Like you, I am confused.
When in September I had some rather inept central heating installers, I had to take my pony book shelves down. Consequently, I had to put the books back, and the Jackie series caused much chaos.
Here is how I have put them.....
1) Jackie Won A Pony 2) Ten Ponies and Jackie 3) Jackie's Show Jumping Surprise 4) Jackie's Pony Patrol 5) Jackie and the Pony Trekkers 6) Jackie and the Pony Camp Summer (it has reprinted as Jackie's Pony Camp Summer in the past, mine is the Knight 1992 edition) 7) Jackie and the Pony Boys 8) Jackie and the Misfit Pony 9) Jackie and the Pony Thieves 10) Jackie on Pony Island 11) Jackie and the Phantom Ponies 12) Jackie and the Moonlight Pony 13) Jackie and the Pony Rivals 14) Jackie and the Missing Showjumper 15) Change Ponies Jackie!
I just realised that I am missing Jackie's Steeplechase Adventure - I thought I had them all. I have added it to my want list now.
I have read them all (except Change Ponies Jackie!) and I think that order makes the most sense. The lack of clear series order and different editions make it confusing.
My copy of Jackie and the Moonlight pony is stated as being a first edition. Also, it says on the inside it is the twelfth in the series.
Has anyone read any of Judith's other books? I have several other pony books and they seem to be equally high standard as her Jackie series.
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Post by Claire on Nov 13, 2007 12:02:52 GMT 1
I am still working on this problem! The general consensus of opinion re. Jackie's Showjumping Surprise is that 1972 is the publishing date. So unless I find out to the contrary this is what I am sticking with!
Thought I would do what I did with the Mary Gervaise series and read the whole series making notes so that the proper reading order could be established (you'd think I didnt have anything better to do!) I am about half way through this Jackie-fest but when I'm finished will put my version of the reading order on the thread!
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Post by Claire on Nov 18, 2007 17:24:14 GMT 1
Thought I would do what I did with the Mary Gervaise series and read the whole series making notes so that the proper reading order could be established (you'd think I didnt have anything better to do!) I am about half way through this Jackie-fest but when I'm finished will put my version of the reading order on the thread! Well at last I am almost at the end of the Jackie books I have been reading and have made a few notes on the storylines. Based on these notes and the publishing dates I have finally come up with what I think is the correct reading order. If you read the books in this order you will be able to follow the characters and events in the proper sequence. I now also have this order on the website. 1. JACKIE WON A PONY (BROCKHAMPTON 1958) 2. 10 PONIES AND JACKIE (BROCKHAMPTON 1959) 3. JACKIE'S PONY PATROL (BROCKHAMPTON 1961) 4. JACKIE AND THE PONY TREKKERS (BROCKHAMPTON 1963) 5. JACKIE'S PONY CAMP SUMMER (BROCKHAMPTON 1968) 6. JACKIE AND THE PONY BOYS (BROCKHAMPTON 1970) 7. JACKIE'S SHOW JUMPING SURPRISE (BROCKHAMPTON 1972) 8. JACKIE AND THE MISFIT PONY (HODDER 1975) 9. JACKIE ON PONY ISLAND (HODDER 1977) 10. JACKIE AND THE PONY THIEVES (HODDER 1978) 11. JACKIE AND THE PHANTOM PONIES (HODDER 1979) 12. JACKIE AND THE MOONLIGHT PONY (HODDER 1980) 13 .JACKIE AND THE PONY RIVALS (HODDER 1981) 14. JACKIE AND THE MISSING SHOWJUMPER (HODDER 1982) 15 .CHANGE PONIES JACKIE (HODDER 1983) 16. JACKIE'S STEEPLECHASE ADVENTURE (HODDER 1984) If you are interested here is how I came up with this orderβ¦ Jackie won a pony β for obvious reasons is no 1. 10 ponies and Jackie must be no. 2 as itβs the only other book where Babs does not own Patch Pony Patrol must be no. 3 as Patch is introduced here and is in all the subsequent books Pony Trekkers is no. 4 going on publishing date of 1963 Pony Camp is no. 5 going on publishing date of 1968 Pony Boys is no. 6 going on publishing date of 1970 and the fact that it must come after Pony Camp as in Pony Boys Jackie tells Tim she has previously worked in a pony camp. Show Jumping Surpise is no.7 based on the publishing date of 1972. At the mo I am assuming the proposed alternative 1959 date is incorrect. This book must come after Pony Patrol as it continues the theme of Aunt Di and her adopted son Lenny whom she met in Pony Patrol. Jackie and Misfit pony is no. 8 going on publishing date of 1975. It must come after Pony Trekkers as it re-visits the characters of Molly, John and the Pinewoods trekking centre first seen in that book. Pony Island is no. 9 based on the publishing date of 1977. I am ignoring the 1961 proposed 1st ed date for the reason that none of the pre-1977 editions of Jackie books that I have seen mention Pony Island in their lists of other Jackie books. If it was first published in 1961 it would be no. 4 in the series which actually does not disrupt any story lines but I am sticking at no. 9! Pony Thieves is no. 10 going on publishing date of 1978 Phantom Ponies is no. 11 based on publishing date of 1979. This must come after Show Jumping Surprise as the girls once again meet Carol who was first seen in that book and became Aunt Di's stepdaughter when Di married Carols father Steve Rowlands. Moonlight Pony is no. 12 based on date of 1980 The last 4 in series are based on publishing dates. I havent read the last one however as I do not have a copy! A bit fed up with Jackie and Babs now I have to say! Also I think I could now probably go on Mastermind with The Jackie Series as my specialised subject! ;D
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Post by exmoorfan on Nov 18, 2007 21:47:34 GMT 1
Claire, Thank you for the giggle...I have been following this with interest, having read some as a child and thought Jackie won a pony was first and couldn't remmeber the others & haven't got around to re reading her yet. Thank you for the investigation.!!! Much appreciated..Please do sign up for Mastermind...;-)
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Post by haffyfan on Jan 21, 2008 22:34:24 GMT 1
Sorry to drag this up agin but the plot sort of thickens...I ahve now bought a 1973 edition of Show jumping Surprise (HB), this does not mention any other editions inside so you would presume a first but I still have a '72' pb...which is the one stating first ed 1959? ? I will try to picture them when i ahve a min but work hectic (and late!!) for next few days. Is it possible the publishers got the printing history/dates of this and another title mixed up do you think?
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