|
Post by Claire on Mar 30, 2022 15:12:34 GMT 1
Hi all, our Spring/Easter Group Read will be Castle in Northumbria by Lorna Hill which is a holiday adventure with ponies set over Easter hols. The book is part of the 'Marjorie' series but can be read as a stand alone adventure.
The Girls Gone By (new) paperback edition is available on Amazon (free delivery for Amazon Prime members) and some used copies on Abebooks. I'd be interested in other people's take on the book as I find it to be pretty sexist, as opposed to most pony books written at the same time - and also I find the character of Guy insufferable. But I think the main bone of contention in this book is the infamous 'spanking' incident....to find out more you'll have to join in and read the book! Discussion to start in approx 3 weeks time.
|
|
|
Post by susanb on Mar 30, 2022 20:25:59 GMT 1
Lol, I can already feel my blood beginning to simmer 😉
Heads up, typo in the subject line… Morthumbria vs Northumbria
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Mar 31, 2022 13:26:00 GMT 1
Lol, I can already feel my blood beginning to simmer 😉 Heads up, typo in the subject line… Morthumbria vs Northumbria Lol to that and the typo - that's what comes of typing sans specs!
|
|
|
Post by darkhorse on Apr 1, 2022 12:29:43 GMT 1
I'm dying to read this now just for the crack! I have an Amazon voucher so I may buy the Girls Gone Buy edition.
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 5, 2022 14:19:44 GMT 1
Just realised I haven't added the GGB edition of this to the Lorna Hill page!
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 20, 2022 22:12:09 GMT 1
Hi all, just wondering how are people getting on with the book?
|
|
|
Post by darkhorse on Apr 21, 2022 15:48:23 GMT 1
I am a little way through it. Haven't got to any 'spanking incident' yet lol but I agree that the character of Guy is really annoying and overbearing.
|
|
|
Post by susanb on Apr 21, 2022 23:38:04 GMT 1
Running later than anticipated… the gang is just reaching the castle!
Agree with Darkhorse, Guy living up to his reputation already 🙄
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 22, 2022 17:34:20 GMT 1
Lol you two, I think any red blooded female would find Guy extremely irritating - to say the least! I'm struggling on with the last chapter and then I'll let go with both barrels on my thoughts on it!
|
|
|
Post by susanb on Apr 24, 2022 18:41:35 GMT 1
OMG 😳….just past the spanking episode. I’d have dragged him to the battlements and pitched him off.
Incidentally, nobody in America has used “sez you” as an expression, outside of a Jimmy Cagney movie. I’m suspecting that the cinema may have been as close to America, or an American, as Hill ever got.
|
|
|
Post by susanb on Apr 24, 2022 23:23:33 GMT 1
Up to Thomas on the Warpath, and I’ve realized I dislike every character in this book 🙁
|
|
|
Post by susanb on Apr 25, 2022 0:13:02 GMT 1
Up to Marjorie Gets Spanked. We need a ranking below horse droppings, which after all, are at least useful 🙄
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 27, 2022 17:30:03 GMT 1
Up to Marjorie Gets Spanked. We need a ranking below horse droppings, which after all, are at least useful 🙄 Classic! I too wish there was a worse rating and I devised them! I agree - definitely one of the worst pony books I’ve read. I also dislike every character - although Guy is by far the worst. Apparently Hill wrote these stories to read to her daughter and her daughter’s friends and they all swooned over Guy. Makes you wonder what sort of values Hill had and what she passed on to those children. The utter sexism in this book goes far beyond anything in Blyton’s books - and she has been criticised heavily in recent years for this crime. Boys are seen not only as superior in strength and brains but in morals (as per Guy thinking the film is unsuitable for girls for example) The female characters seem to be there only to display unsavoury traits for Guy to put right. It really is vomit-inducing stuff. Incredibly there is not just one but two spanking incidents in the book, although the second one is in much more gory detail. It really does amount to assault. As does when Guy picks up Sylvia. Quite apart from all this, the book is very bitty without a plot as such and doesn’t have a whole lot of pony content either. However I would still recommend that people read this for the sole purpose of comparing it to how most other pony books written at the same time portray their female characters, and the male/female dynamic. If Hill was an example of how ‘normal’ middle class adults viewed females and the way they should behave, it illustrates how ahead of their time most pony books were in terms of equality of the sexes and the value of females.
|
|
|
Post by tintin on Apr 28, 2022 19:36:33 GMT 1
I'm up to page 50 and there has been less than 10 pages when they were not unpleasantly bickering. Apparently this is 4th or 5th in a series and, much as I'd like to find out how Guy became some kind of Corporal figure to them, I can't bear much more of this. I will finish this one, but no more I think. Kudos to the writer I suppose for depicting stroppy bickering people realistically in their awfulness, but I put it down on the train because even the book on the Thatcher Government I had to read for work was more uplifting...
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 28, 2022 23:13:43 GMT 1
I put it down on the train because even the book on the Thatcher Government I had to read for work was more uplifting...
|
|
|
Post by darkhorse on May 3, 2022 16:45:50 GMT 1
Sorry late to the discussion. I haven't been able to log on to the forum for the past few days. I found the book quite quite hard to get through. I agree that the characters were not very likeable. Guy was beyond the pale. Esme had the saving grace of loving animals, but her adoration of Guy was quite sick-making. Toby was like a mini-me version of Guy. Margery was pretty awful but at least she stood up to Guy. I also found the book very moralistic and preachy. As for the spanking sessions, what can I say but awful. This sort of thing has no place in a children's book. For once I can't find anything good to say about a pony book!
|
|
|
Post by Claire on May 4, 2022 22:56:53 GMT 1
For once I can't find anything good to say about a pony book! The only good thing about the book is the dustwrapper artwork by Geoffrey Whittam on some editions. Sadly my copy doesnt have a jacket
|
|
|
Post by tintin on May 5, 2022 18:47:42 GMT 1
What an astonishing book. I finally managed to finish it through gritted teeth. Congratulations Claire I think you have succeeded in finding a book about which opinion is unanimous, unfortunately unanimously negative.
To me this was like "Full Metal Jacket" if it had been written by Enid Blyton. Like Gunnery Sgt Hartman Guy is dictatorial, offensive, rude and largely operating in a supervisory vacuum. Hartman is the marginally more attractive character - 1) it's his job, Guy's training crusade is entirely self appointed 2) Hartman is trying to produce disciplined, tough, brave soldiers to function in the demanding environment of the failing war in the Vietnamese jungle. Guy is trying to produce something I am not quite sure what, but in his head, just as in Harman's, is some kind of Platonic ideal of the trained person.
All the characters in "The Clan" are unattractive and wearing. Guy is not the worst, like Hartman he is unpleasant because he believes himself on a training mission and to be doing good (although unlike Hartman Guy appears to really enjoy it, although possibly being older and more mature/professional the NCO just hides it better). Marjorie, however, is sociopathic - to me the abuse of the poor pony (which is n't even hers), the lying to the vulnerable person and the destruction of her dress are much worse than the beatings administered by Guy (although they are not pretty)
More disturbing than the antics of the characters are the fact that this is the work of a mature woman who applies no censure on them, indeed seems to present them as some kind of model. What sort of person, never mind adult person, wants people to be shrill, dictatorial, argumentative, patronising harpies like these?
It is very hard to review this book and stay within the bounds of decency. Until I read Claire's comments on the book I have to say that Page 69/70 (Falcon Library edition of 1959) made me think the author was a Gay Man. Now it is OK to be fond of your characters as an author, even in love with them, but this part of the book come near to crossing (crosses?) a line for a children's book. The author is practically drooling over Guy.
There is only one pleasant main character, Judith. When her brother, who is her guardian, comes into money she is to be sent away to school. The characters rejoice saying this will be good for her ie what they mean is she will become like them. I found this, rather than the beatings, the most chilling part of the book
I am giving it the lowest mark which is a shame as it is very well written, but then so is De Sade
|
|
|
Post by Claire on May 8, 2022 0:00:47 GMT 1
Thanks for your analysis of the book Tintin. I found it very interesting. Although I'm not familar with Full Metal Jacket, I can see how Guy could be compared to a sergeant. I do find itinteresting that you see Margery as a more unpleasant person than Guy. Not sure if its because I'm female and my feminist tendancies are outraged by him, but I find Guy a lot worse. Margery, to me, is a spoilt brat who hasn't grown out of the egocentric amoral stage of childhood. True, she could grow up to be sociopathic, but it is possible shecould improve with age. Guy on the other hand does not have the excuse of youth and selfishness for his behaviour. He is totally rigid in the knowledge that he is always right - which i find far more chilling than Margery's brattish behaviour. I totally agree that he enjoys his role as moral guardian of the younger children rather too much. I have a slight,almost unwilling, respect for Margery, in that she does at least stand up to Guy's overbearing attitude.
I don't know if anyone has read Lorna Hill's 'Sadlers Wells' ballet series (incidentally a much better series than this one) but Guy also appears in a book in that series, a few years older. He has not improved much. The heroine of the story, a promising ballet dancer, falls in love with Guy, and he loses little time in brow beating her and forcing her to give up her career to be a good little housewife for him. Pretty awful stuff! Interestingly, in another instalment of the series, a similarly bossy and domineering male character also appears, but unlike Guy, this one is given short shrift by the author and her female lead, who puts the man in his place quite nicely. Why the change in attitude? It has always puzzled me.
|
|