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Post by Claire on Feb 26, 2013 12:55:09 GMT 1
Our next author of the month tie-in reading circle book - well actually 3 books but I feel it is essential to read the whole trilogy if you can. Starting this a couple of days before the actual author of the month thread to give people a chance to get started with it being a bit longer than usual. Its a fairly easy book to find, the paperback omnibus (pictured below) containing the full trilogy works out the cheapest to buy. Discussion will start in approx 14 days time - but just join in later on if you need more time. Attachments:
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Post by Claire on Mar 16, 2013 12:35:45 GMT 1
Hiya folks just wondering where we are all at with this one. Anyone finished and ready to discuss yet? If so I will jot down a few discussion points which I've come up with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 13:10:16 GMT 1
I'm ready!
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Post by rallycairn on Mar 16, 2013 16:16:37 GMT 1
I'm almost finished with A Hoof in the Door. Had an even harder time liking the Fane sisters than I did the first time I read the books (and wrote a substantial thread about it here), but I do have some more thoughts percolating! as usual.
Ready to start any time.
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Post by Claire on Mar 16, 2013 22:12:41 GMT 1
WARNING - SPOILERS BELOW! Do not read on unless you have read the books. Some discussion points: Lol I did want to ask anyhow about people's perceptions of the Fane sisters. I remember your thread rallycairrn but not sure everyone will have read it and anyway you can't discuss the thread without them. So folks did you love or loathe the pair? To me the theme of the book (and in fact most of Caroline's novels) is the constant battle between a desire to pursue a career and the more down to earth pull of normality, friendship, love, etc. Throughout the book Elaine is pulled one way by her friendship for the Fanes and her satisfaction in working with them and making the yard a success, and the other way by her ambition to become a top event rider. Do you agree/disagree this is the main theme? Elaine at the end of the book questions her ambition and career - do you think the author also shares the eventual view of Elaine that some things are more important than ambition? Also were you surprised at this change of heart and the unconventional ending? Do you think she actually gives up eventing? Also linked to this ending, does anyone agree with my perception that Elaine's change of heart reflects a possible ambiguous attitude by the author to the way equines are used in sport and other areas? I think she feels a little worried about how horses can be exploited and - if not actually abused then put in potential danger - for human enjoyment. I feel it is Elaine's realization of what horses can go through in top level eventing that consolidates earlier doubts she'd had about her career. If anyone has read The Silver Bridle this theme seems even more blatant, as the naive heroine is made to realize how horses have been exploited for films over the years and the possible fate of the horse she herself has fallen in love with. On a lighter note - Forster - fanciable or not...? For me definitely not, the sort of annoying masterful overly good looking Mills n Boon type hero I cannot stand. But I do think he's the sort of man Elaine would be attracted to. For me, Elaine lacks the independant spirit and ruthlessness needed to get to the top, such a person I feel would despise Forster!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 13:54:59 GMT 1
The humour in this series really made me laugh out loud! Especially the first book. ;D
The Fane sisters really are a selfish pair! I used to work for people a bit like them so some of the cringe making things they did struck a chord. Their mother, however, I really warmed to even though she is as bats as they are.
I'm guessing Elaine does give up Eventing, as you say I don't think she had the commitment to carry her dream through.
Forster? Nooo not for me...... yukky!
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Post by rallycairn on Mar 17, 2013 16:28:54 GMT 1
WARNING - SPOILERS BELOW! Do not read on unless you have read the books. Some discussion points: Lol I did want to ask anyhow about people's perceptions of the Fane sisters. I remember your thread rallycairrn but not sure everyone will have read it and anyway you can't discuss the thread without them. So folks did you love or loathe the pair? I re-read my monster original post/thread and I still agree with what I wrote before.
ponybooks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ponybooks&action=display&thread=1166
On second reading I guess I find Elaine's waffling slightly more annoying, but still feel like the Fanes should've taken much better care of their horses before Elaine came along, as far as grooming, mucking out, etc. To me the theme of the book (and in fact most of Caroline's novels) is the constant battle between a desire to pursue a career and the more down to earth pull of normality, friendship, love, etc. Throughout the book Elaine is pulled one way by her friendship for the Fanes and her satisfaction in working with them and making the yard a success, and the other way by her ambition to become a top event rider. Do you agree/disagree this is the main theme? Elaine at the end of the book questions her ambition and career - do you think the author also shares the eventual view of Elaine that some things are more important than ambition? Also were you surprised at this change of heart and the unconventional ending? Do you think she actually gives up eventing? Yes, I think you are right that this is a central theme in the books. I feel that tension in Elaine even more on second reading. While part of me thinks, especially with Elaine's dad marrying Lady Jennifer, that Elaine still could've had maintained a lot of ties with the family as a whole and still taken the assistant trainer position at the end, I can understand that on a day-to-day basis she might prefer not to leave Havers Hall. And I think, with all the startup money from the sale of the painting, that they could have a good basis for a high-class hunt livery/boarding barn, and even doing some training and showing, including some bigger events and shows, though Elaine probably wouldn't be as likely to do the CCI**** events and the like. It would be just as hard a life, but perhaps a lot more fun in the "bosom" of a madcap family. Still, I think she could have tried the big leagues for a few years, and then gone back home if she didn't like it. Again, the Fanes were going to be legal as well as emotional family from then on, so she had a more permanent tie to them at the end. Also linked to this ending, does anyone agree with my perception that Elaine's change of heart reflects a possible ambiguous attitude by the author to the way equines are used in sport and other areas? Yes, I do think that's a part of it, although to me the main thing for Elaine is just that security and pull of the home life. And to be fair, it was quite a colorful and interesting life, and with a bit of money and continued discipline, might have been even better from then on. On a lighter note - Forster - fanciable or not...? He has some thoughtful moments, and he certainly tries from the get-go to help Elaine with her ambitions, but overall, no, too brutish. One thing I want to add is that I think that Annemarie was quite horrid about her horse, and I really think the group should'nt have coddled her so about what she did.
That sounds awful of me, I guess, but I really can't stand people endangering animals wantonly like that. She needed that shoved in her face, I thought, not to be protected from what she did. And I completely disagree with the other student, Viv, telling Elaine she is selfish. Excuse me? After all Elaine did for the Fanes, and felt guilty whenever she did anything to further her eventing training? Elaine, selfish? I don't see that AT ALL> Further, how could anyone be seen as selfish for not wanting to let this horrible person who is willing to lame and injure horses for her own ambitions ride his/her own horse? Ridiculous. I realize Viv was making more of a sweeping judgment of Elaine than just referring to Balthazar, but still -- ridiculous accusation. I think Elaine was very giving.
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Post by Claire on Mar 17, 2013 21:29:55 GMT 1
Hehe just been reading the original Fanes thread. Its a must read even if you already read it the first time as its even more relevant now we are discussing the book as a group read. ponybooks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ponybooks&action=display&thread=1166As I said on that thread the Fanes are a great comic creation and provide a lot of the humour in the book - and I do love a lot of their eccentricity. But as with a lot of funny characters in books, TV shows etc, they are really quite awful as human beings. I see them as typical upper class people who have fallen on hard times but still retain their attitudes that the rest of the world is there to serve them. They have a complete aversion to anything that resemblance hard work or effort which is why their stables are in such a mess when Elaine comes along. They manipulate Elaine terribly throughout the books, especially by using emotional blackmail. I agree with rallycairn that Elaine is the opposite of selfish. In fact I think she is too giving and has a bit of a doormat complex. In her own words (slightly paraphrased) she "wants love most of all" - I think this desire to be needed and cared for makes her fair prey for the Fanes and Nick Forster (altho ironically he turns out to be actually nicer and less manipulative than them - tho still not my idea of an ideal man!) Its also why I think she is not the sort of material for a top class eventer who needs - at least without oodles of money behind her - to be far more ruthless and single-minded. Ironically considering the book is so humourous, many of the characters are not very pleasant. As rally says, AnneMarie is not caring enough of her horse, Selina is a pain in the butt (tho as she is someone else playing a part she may just be acting horrid - or she may be that obnoxious in her real persona - whatever she comes across as a pain). In fact most of the students are whiny and irritating. And 'The Chief' is the sort of riding instructor I loathe, a mini tyrant who bullies his pupils into submission. (A female version almost put me off riding when I was a kid). One of the few characters who comes across as pleasant is Hans Gelderhol (whom I will keep thinking of as 'Golden Balls' ) and we hardly see any of him. Oh yes - anyone else think Elaine had a big crush on Golden Balls Gelderhol...? In fact I think a lot of her desire to succeed came from wanting his attention and appreciation. In her very revealing speech at the end (P.173 of the omnibus edition) when she confesses she wants love most of all, she does admit she wanted his admiration etc and I think she is trying to say that she wanted his love too but now she has got over her crush and grown up a lot she has an insight into her motives. I may be wrong and reading too much into it but for me its the only thing that seems to explain her determination to become an eventer. Nothing else in her character suggests the sort of person who is ambitious and wants fame and fortune. However I can understand her doing it all for another person - fits perfectly with her personality.
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Post by kunuma on Mar 17, 2013 22:05:28 GMT 1
Oh dear, here I go again - I first read these books a long time ago, and remember parts of them as funny - and definitely true to life as in the landed gentry types. Then later I read Caroline's biographical one, and it is probably one of the VERY few pony books that got quite literally binned! It put me right off her books I'm afraid. I can still appreciate some of the humour, and the stories - and have just reread them to be fair to them - BUT I like them less each time I read them, I feel less forgiving. I prefer Elaine as a character, though I wouldn't have touched Forster with a disinfected barge pole, and like the ending that gives her everything she wants in a way. Oh dear, I've got to find something nice to say - I'll whip through them again tonight and try to find something positive - but it's hard.
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Post by rallycairn on Mar 17, 2013 22:56:32 GMT 1
Golden Balls! omg too funny. Claire, I certainly got the same sense, that Elaine had a crush on Gelderhol but got over it. Certainly not uncommon to have a crush on a mentor, especially one who was handsome, relatively young, etc.! But she was able to look back on the situation with new insight, which was nice.
kunuma, I'm with you -- I'm liking Akrill's books less on re-read. I still find them very, very good, but not nearly as much as I liked them the first time around.
Re: the Eventing trilogy, a couple of nits to pick, and I can provide quotations and page numbers if anyone wants, but I doubt anyone would care -- but Akrill's timeline is off by the second book. The first book is stated to open in October (referred to when Elaine is shown to her room, which looks bleak to her until the curtains are opened to reveal the beautiful view in the October sunshine). This book ends toward the end of that hunting season, with the purchase of Legend. The second book opens in spring with the disastrous cart ride with The Comet, which leads to seeing the flyer for the point-to-point, which is stated as being April 25th. And it is definitely later in the same spring as the one in which the first book ended, because it refers to The Comet's bolt at the hunt that last season. Then, the combined test is stated as being the month after that (May), and the two-day event is stated both as being the month after that (June) and stated by date as June as well. But at the Awards Ceremony at the end of the book, Elaine refers to working for the Fanes for a year -- but it would only be 9 months. I can take that as a loose statement, though, except that on the next page she refers to knowing them for a year and a half. That's a bit off for even casual reference for me. Plus, it's clear Elaine has only been through one hunting season with the Fanes/one season serving Thunder and Lightning Limited, etc. at that point in the story.
Second nit is even smaller -- at the end of A Hoof in the Door, Elaine gets 2500 pounds from Lala for The Comet/Genesis. Then in the opening to Ticket to Ride, it says 2000.
One thing that I did really like and that gave some much-needed warmth to the story for me was The Comet and the arrangement with Lala Thornapple. Elaine got some cash on the spot to help with her needs, but she made sure that The Comet wouldn't come to a bad end if Lala predeceased him. That whole plotline was very fun and heartwarming to me, if improbable, especially with the saddle and all! And even that The Comet could win the point-to-point and complete even an Intermediate level event at his advanced age -- improbable, too, but still a nice addition to the books.
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Post by Claire on Mar 18, 2013 0:21:36 GMT 1
Here's a good idea for a comp - a prize to anyone who can find Kunuma a book she actually likes ;D For me Caroline Akrill's books are humourous but I don't feel much in the way of other emotions with them - the possible exception being The Silver Bridle whose heroine I like the most. I never noticed the time-line thing Rallycairn but then I do tend to skim over a lot of stuff when I read, especially re-reads.
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Post by rallycairn on Mar 18, 2013 3:54:01 GMT 1
The coveted Kunuma prize, so difficult to win no one has done it yet! haha
She's not picky, she's _discerning_.
I enjoyed the eventing trilogy more than I sounded like, I'm sure. I really do like Elaine a lot, actually. Like I said, at some points it's "here we go again" with the should I stay or should I go issue -- but that's life and she genuinely had pulls in both directions. And the more I think about it, the more I think running the Havers Hall Equestrian Center (lol) would actually be a challenging and fulfilling job. Still seems hard not to at least try for the big comps first, but obviously Elaine was seeing stuff about that she didn't like, with the risks to the horses like Claire said, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 9:34:49 GMT 1
I enjoyed them as much as the first time I read them ;D Yes they saw her coming all right! What did everyone thing of the Fanes mother? Sorry if I've missed any comments about her anywhere)
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Post by Claire on Mar 18, 2013 12:56:55 GMT 1
What did everyone thing of the Fanes mother? Sorry if I've missed any comments about her anywhere) Hmm I'm not really sure about her. She is certainly not as bad as her daughters, she does intervene at times when they are totally exploiting Elaine and seems genuinely kind. But she shares her daughters eternal optimism that everything will always turn out right which is really an excuse for not taking any action against things, hoping something will turn up. Its partly her fault the house and stables are crumbling away. I must admit to being irritated by these sort of people who get into all sorts of messes and let someone else sort it all out. Annoyingly something usually does 'turn up' cos there's always some fool like Elaine or her Dad to mop up the mess cos they feel sorry for the poor helpless female. Sometimes I almost think this is some sort of subtle manipulation too.
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Post by rallycairn on Mar 18, 2013 14:22:15 GMT 1
rosie, I find Lady Jennifer quite a bit more likeable than her daughters. She is much more caring of others I think, like Claire said. And though it's true she is not doing much to stop the decay of her house and home, she also is at least out in the world with her constant stream of charitable commitments.
Although kind of like Rebecca's parents in A Pattern of Roses, sometimes I think doing all that charity work outside the home can be a cover for neglecting home and family -- still at least she's not just sitting around all day in her favorite drawing room bemoaning her fate. She could do more at home but at least she has made a life, and it does involve taking an interest in others and her community.
I think that if Henrietta and Nigella had a touch more of their mother's caring and empathy for others, they might seem more likeable to me even if their behavior wasn't a whole lot different. Some sort of self-knowledge on their part would be nice.
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Post by kunuma on Mar 18, 2013 19:49:12 GMT 1
Here's a good idea for a comp - a prize to anyone who can find Kunuma a book she actually likes ;D ;D ;D Go on then, I challenge you all!! I promise I'll be truthful - and I promise I'll give a prize to the winner! It will have to avoid the obvious though, so no Eleyne Mitchell, Monica Edwards or Patricia Leitch as you could pick any one of them and get the prize! Bring it on!
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Post by Claire on Mar 18, 2013 22:15:18 GMT 1
Here's a good idea for a comp - a prize to anyone who can find Kunuma a book she actually likes ;D ;D ;D Go on then, I challenge you all!! I promise I'll be truthful - and I promise I'll give a prize to the winner! It will have to avoid the obvious though, so no Eleyne Mitchell, Monica Edwards or Patricia Leitch as you could pick any one of them and get the prize! Bring it on! Sounds fun. I'll have to start a thread for this!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 8:27:17 GMT 1
Good idea! ;D
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Post by Claire on Mar 19, 2013 14:05:27 GMT 1
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