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Post by Claire on Aug 2, 2012 11:24:14 GMT 1
This discussion is for Penned Up In Paradise by Stasia Cramer. Please note - it is in kindle ebook format only - so unless you have a kindle or the kindle for PC application - can be downloaded free from Amazon here - you will unfortunately not be able to join in. The book is very cheap to download and is occaisionally offered free as part of the Amazon promotion on ebooks. This book has been translated from Dutch - so please bear that in mind when reading/making comments. The selection was suggested by haffy due to its highly original (weird?) plot! Attachments:
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Post by darkhorse on Aug 2, 2012 13:45:11 GMT 1
Was this one of the freebies? If it's one of the ones I downloaded I will try and join in.
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Post by Claire on Aug 2, 2012 19:27:35 GMT 1
Yes it was one of the free ones. If anyone hasn't got it yet keep checking as it may come on for free again.
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Post by kunuma on Aug 2, 2012 19:48:15 GMT 1
Can you send them from one pc kindle thingy to another??
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Post by Claire on Aug 2, 2012 20:36:45 GMT 1
Just trying to work that out kunuma. I sent a file to haffy yesterday not sure if she managed to open it tho.
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 2, 2012 21:58:39 GMT 1
Not tried yet, too lazy to find kindle lead and i don't have the kindle for pc thingy you lot have...how do i get that?
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Post by Claire on Aug 2, 2012 22:54:11 GMT 1
Not tried yet, too lazy to find kindle lead and i don't have the kindle for pc thingy you lot have...how do i get that? Theres a link on the opening post of the thread. If you get that the file may just open automatically in kindle.
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 3, 2012 12:26:05 GMT 1
thanks just downloaded it. the file you sent me works fine in that but won't open on the proper kindle. I just dragged file across like i did with the Maggie Dana book but it says there's a problem and if i bought it from amazon to try downloading it again.
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Post by Claire on Aug 3, 2012 16:52:25 GMT 1
Thanks for helping with the experiment haffy! Basically it means that we can transfer the files to other people but they can only read them on the PC kindle. Still its easier than sending books in the post when we want to lend them to someone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 17:55:31 GMT 1
I've downloaded the kindle PC thingy, I'd like to join in with this somehow....haven't looked to see how the thing works yet
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Post by Claire on Aug 3, 2012 18:00:40 GMT 1
I'll email you rosie Well done on taking the plunge into e-book land! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 18:06:23 GMT 1
Thanks Claire....I think! ;D ;D
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Post by Claire on Aug 4, 2012 11:15:29 GMT 1
For those who have read it here are some questions to get the ball rolling: Do you think it was odd how quickly the heroine seem to lose interest in her old family? Did you think she seemed uncaring? Did you at any point think it was something other than a kidnapping? (At one point I thought she had died in the ice and might be in a sort of heaven-like place!) What did you think of the letter at the end. Do you agree with Weinberger that her 'actual captivity lasted only one night?' Do you think the blame lay equally with the pair of them? Or was he let off too lightly? Do you think Jacky is happy to be back home or not? Feel free to discuss these or any other points.
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 4, 2012 14:11:18 GMT 1
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Post by Claire on Aug 7, 2012 11:39:22 GMT 1
I have a question to add...What would you have done? I'll wait a few more days before adding my own thoughts so more people have the chance to read it. A very good question to ask, will anyone admit to doing the same thing tho?
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Post by darkhorse on Aug 12, 2012 15:52:40 GMT 1
I've started reading this. It is intriguing but it seems to me not to flow very well, if you know what I mean. I noticed that it's translated so this could be the reason. More comments when I have finished it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 6:51:27 GMT 1
I just couldn't get into it I'm afraid.
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Post by Claire on Aug 13, 2012 12:07:33 GMT 1
I just couldn't get into it I'm afraid. Do you think that was cos it was an e-book or just the story/writing itself? Feel free to leave comments now everyone - I think most of us have read/attempted to read/or are in the process of reading it now
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Post by kunuma on Aug 13, 2012 12:18:11 GMT 1
I too thought at first it was very weirdly written, but then twigged it was translated - some of the others are really badly translated too. It is such a shame she didn't get a horsy person to go through the translation so that it made sense before it got as far as Kindle, it would have made quite a bit of difference to how they read.
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Post by Claire on Aug 13, 2012 12:42:03 GMT 1
I actually think its one of the slightly better translated ones of hers. The Vamp one is pretty dire and Pony For a Secret isn't much better. Its quite funny but when you read non-translated books after reading these the non-translated ones seem amazingly well written - even 50 Shades would prob seem like Shakespeare ;D
However I agree its a shame the author could not find a better (more horsy) translator as she does have original ideas and plots.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 13:20:22 GMT 1
I think it's the translation thing, like others said it just doesn't flow very well at all. I got bored after the first chapter!
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Post by Claire on Aug 13, 2012 20:15:39 GMT 1
I'd already read a couple of the authors books so was prepared for the translation, also my nosiness in wanting to know what happened next overcame any scruples about the writing style
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 13, 2012 20:44:33 GMT 1
Lol i'm with you there Claire on all counts. I didn't think the translation was that bad at all but i had read 3 others by her immediately prior so i guess you just tune in (or out maybe).
Do you think it was odd how quickly the heroine seem to lose interest in her old family? Did you think she seemed uncaring?
This is hard to answer, children are pretty selfish (i still am!) and self centered, until your in that position who know how you would cope? You hear stories of hostages becoming attached to their captures after all etc. In pony book world she was pretty much plonked in pony book heaven...all that money and those beautiful horses, hard choices to be made add to that the turmoil that would be going on, should the situation be real, and i can see why you could go along with it.
Did you at any point think it was something other than a kidnapping? (At one point I thought she had died in the ice and might be in a sort of heaven-like place!)
I had no idea what was going on initially, i was very confused at that point where it would go, i did wonder if it was a dream or even if her original life that started the book was not in real time and somehow the beginning was the end if you get what i mean.
What did you think of the letter at the end. Do you agree with Weinberger that her 'actual captivity lasted only one night?' Do you think the blame lay equally with the pair of them? Or was he let off too lightly?
He kidnapped her, no question there but yes she went along with it more than happily after a very short while. It didn't feel like she was scared but then aagin she did try to escape early on and couldn't get away so maybe by the time she had real freedom she felt she had nowhere to escape to? I don't think it actually said anything but i wondered if she had been taken to another country after her kidnapping? Not sure what others picked up on this? The one thing slightly puzzling is how she was not recognised sooner, especially since she wasn't held captive as such.
Do you think Jacky is happy to be back home or not?
Back to a poor and pony less place and a family who know she played along with it - quite a dilemma i'd say.
What would i do
Try living the dream maybe for a while...not keen on arabs myself though so they may have sent me running home ;D
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Post by Claire on Aug 14, 2012 11:49:06 GMT 1
Great comments haffy. Here's my take on it:
Do you think it was odd how quickly the heroine seem to lose interest in her old family? Did you think she seemed uncaring?
I actually did think it extremely odd. I realise kids are selfish but to seem to completely forget your family, not even really care if they are worrying about you, seems a bit extreme. I know when you're a kid your siblings and parents can really irritate you but if they were taken away it would be a different matter - you never really appreciate something til its gone. It was hinted that she didnt get on that well with her family but it wasn't anything terrible like physical abuse. Plus she didnt seem to have too bad a life back home, fair enough not in the same league as the 'kidnapped life' but she had lots of riding, even won some pretty good comps, and had a boyfriend. Not that terrible. I think a less selfish kid would have maybe played along for a while but then got homesick tried more to escape. Jacky is an extremely self-centred girl even for a 15 year old and I actually found her quite unpleasant.
Did you at any point think it was something other than a kidnapping? (At one point I thought she had died in the ice and might be in a sort of heaven-like place!)
As I said above all that business with the dreams of the ice made me think maybe she had died and this was her version of heaven - or she was having a hallucination while she was unconscious or something. The author certainly kept us guessing. I think I was a tad disappointed to find it was just a kidnapping lol. Now I think the ice episode is her subconscious 'nice' part which won't let her forget her parents. But even in her subconscious she is fighting any guilt she feels at giving them up by turning them into evil figures who watch her drown. Well thats my take on the ice episode anyhow!
What did you think of the letter at the end. Do you agree with Weinberger that her 'actual captivity lasted only one night?' Do you think the blame lay equally with the pair of them? Or was he let off too lightly?
OK he was a bit mentally unhinged by his daughters death and perhaps had some diminished responsibility but I still think he was let off too lightly. I dont think he would have got such a light sentence in reality. I do agree that Jacky was complicit and she could have escaped - after all she was out and about in bars and such with her friends. she could have easily escaped then. But she is a minor and it could be argued that she was psychologically controlled by the kidnapper. I think there is a term for this but forgot what its called. Not that I think she did suffer from this i think she was just enjoying the life of privilige! But she was too young to be really held for her actions in the law. Weinburger came across as just as selfish and uncaring as Jacky, for example how he says Jacky's father would lower his blod pressure by dropping the civil suit against him! Unbelievable! I found both Jacky and W were selfish and egocentric and not very pleasant and actually I think they belonged together!
Do you think Jacky is happy to be back home or not?
Definitely not. She is still whining on about her lot - despite the fact that the family's problems and increasing debt are partly her own making.
What would I do?
In my own case I would have been desperate to get back to my family and friends and my own animals so I would have struggled to escape and certainly wouldn't have done the same thing as Jacky no matter what the temptations (and I like luxury as well as the next person AND I love Arabs). I don't think I would have been averse to him adopting me tho if i could bring my own family and animals to live there!
Other thoughts
I thought the letter part of the book was actually quite shocking and definitely took the book to another level. It would make younger readers think about what happened and question Jacky's motives which they may not have picked up on so much throughout the book. I do wonder if the author was trying to put across a message that children are now too selfish and obsessed with wealth and having everything they want and that Jacky was an extreme embodiment of this. Perhaps I am reading too much into this tho, as its my own opinion! What do others think about this? Was this a theme in the book or was it just an out and out mystery?
All in all this was very thought provoking and original and if properly translated probably would have been excellent. As it is the writing style did let it down.
BTW haffy - dont forget to vote!
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Post by kunuma on Aug 14, 2012 20:03:08 GMT 1
Going to have to read it again, speed reading rather misses out the finer points lol! Speaking of kindles, beware, mind is being targeted by vruses - or even viruses!! Never knew viruses read pony books!
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Post by darkhorse on Aug 19, 2012 15:54:13 GMT 1
I agre with Rosie as I found this book very hard going. It also seemed to jump from one bit to another very abruptly. The chracters of her new friends seemed to appear without any introduction and I had to go back and re-read some of the book, thinking that I had missed something out! But I also agree with Claire and Haffy that I wanted to find out what happened so I kept ploughing on. The kidnapper was dealt with far too leniently. He should have been locked up and the key threw away. He wasn't even very repentant at the end judging from the letter he sent. Claire I think that the psychological condition you were talking about is Stockholm syndrome. Here is Wikipedia definition of it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndromeJackie could have been suffering from that. She did start feeling sorry for the kidnapper after a while and started to care for him. It would explain why she didn't try to escape. The luxurious lifestyle was a bonus! I am surprised the prosecution didnt use this line to get a bigger sentence for him. I agree that the book might have been making a point about children being too greedy and money obsessed due to the fact that Jackie was not a very likeable character. It didn't seem as if the reader was meant to sympathise with her.
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Post by Claire on Aug 22, 2012 9:29:46 GMT 1
Thanks darkhorse it was Stockholm Syndrome I was thinking of.
I think it may be true that the author didnt want us to sympathise too much with the heroine. In another of her books, forgot its title - the one where they are trying to win a riding comp and having lots of sex and stuff! - the characters are all pretty awful and I dont think you are meant to like them either so that you will get the message that too much competitiveness is not good. Again I could be reading too much into the books and its hard to tell with the poor translations but I think she does have certain themes she wants to get across in the stories.
Kunuma have you re-read the book yet - I'd like to know your take on things.
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Post by kunuma on Aug 22, 2012 21:10:53 GMT 1
Yes finally, took a while as my back is playing up and I had to do it in small doses and kept forgetting the bit I'd just read! What would I do - Arab Stallion? Labrador puppy?? I'd be changing my appearance and staying put!! I think she wasn't all that fond of her family - and I can't say I blame her from the sound of things, even had to face up to the horse she had loved being sold and no chance of getting one of her own, and she is fed up and jealous of her little brother Yuri. I think she was scared at first and playing along until she found she couldn't escape straight away that first time she tried to gallop off on the stallion, then I think she decided it was better there ! Rather surprised it didn't occur to her or the kidnapper/surrogate dad, that she would be recognised at a big event - hadn't they heard of wigs?? i would have thought the kidnapper would have got a sterner sentence,but she did speak for him at his trial, at least that was the impression I got. The odd thing about the book is that it feels as though there is a bit missing in the middle, one minute she is just there, and the next she has all these friends and is going out to pubs and clubs- bit of a jump there. Oh yes, and an eight week old lab sitting still on a cushion - no chance! ;D
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Post by Claire on Aug 23, 2012 0:14:58 GMT 1
I think she wasn't all that fond of her family - and I can't say I blame her from the sound of things, even had to face up to the horse she had loved being sold and no chance of getting one of her own, and she is fed up and jealous of her little brother Yuri. I dont agree - I don't really understand why she hated her family so much, its was just the normal annoying family stuff that goes on, nothing really terrible. Surely you don't hate your family just cos they cant afford to buy you a horse. And the horse which was sold was not sold by her parents but by the stables she rode at. I think she was a horrid selfish and childish little madam. If her parents had any sense they would not have bothered looking for her! Did anyone actually feel any sympathy for her cos I didnt whatsoever!
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Post by kunuma on Aug 23, 2012 11:42:32 GMT 1
Surely you don't hate your family just cos they cant afford to buy you a horse. You don't?? ;D Good we haven't had a good disagreement for a while so here goes, she reminded me rather of the girl (drat can't remember her name) in the book about Jousting by CP (yep, you guessed it, can't remember the name of that either - something like a job with horses?) Anyway she had stormed off to this job in a right huff, hating her mum who had just got remarried and had a baby. I think teenagers quite often hate their parents, it's all genetic, supposed to make you want to leave home! There's a bit after she had just been kidnapped, where she is imagining her parents' reactions, and she is just imagining what her mum says, then she imagines her being sidetracked by Yuri needing something - I think that is telling. They didn't look for her very hard!! She appeared to be out in public all the time with no one even noticing - and, on a serious note, it always amazes me in real life when people seem to live completely undiscovered like that aka other RL kidnap victims. It's a bit like running off and getting married to someone your parents' hate - but where you can have the lifestyle you want. btw I was a bit confused as to how he did actually kidnap her, and as was previously mentioned how far away the kidnapper's house was from where she lived?
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