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Post by Claire on Nov 11, 2010 12:17:50 GMT 1
Hi all, our next reading circle book is All Change aka The Hidden Horse by JPT If you need to borrow a copy of the book please post here. Copies are usually easy to find and cheap on ebay/amazon. As usual discussion will start in about 10-14 days time when everyone has had a chance to get hold of a book and read it. I will also add a poll then. Enjoy!
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Post by trixiepony on Nov 12, 2010 10:38:21 GMT 1
Cool Its one Ive got I'll go dig it out and read it.
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Post by foxglove on Nov 12, 2010 12:23:21 GMT 1
Mine arrived off Amazon today (the matching of buyers to sellers of second hand books is such a good idea).
I recognise the cover (paperback with the chestnut horse grazing) and the blurb on the back, so think I must have read it in the dim and distant past, but never owned it. Looking forward to renewing my aquaintance!
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Post by kunuma on Nov 13, 2010 21:49:27 GMT 1
The LAST box, why is everything always in the last place you look?? Reminder to self, next time you gleefully offer books to people find them first! Am now out of spares for All Change sadly!
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Post by exmoorfan on Nov 20, 2010 20:00:20 GMT 1
Ok .Without looking at them.. Thought they were a different book.? Have both.. Hidden horse piccy is a horse grazing. . And All Change they are chasing a Bull/ Cow..? Umm. Which shall I read.?
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vera
Pony Clubber
Posts: 247
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Post by vera on Nov 26, 2010 1:01:47 GMT 1
Thanks to Kunuma I now have "All Change" plus two Noel and Henry stories which had disappeared from my collection. Looking forward to some light reading. ANd Kunuma, thank you! Vera
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Post by foxglove on Nov 26, 2010 14:40:47 GMT 1
exmoorfan, it's the same book re-released under a different title, presumably the original wasn't "horsey" enough?
I have to say, The Hidden Horse must be a heavyweight contender for the title of "Most Misleading Cover Picture" (surely another Top Ten right there). Why on earth does it depict a chestnut Araby-looking horse grazing in a lush summer meadow, when the book is set in mid-winter and features no chestnuts at all?!
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Post by trixiepony on Nov 27, 2010 12:33:29 GMT 1
Tee Hee That's the one I have foxglove, It isn't a abridge edition is it! arr.
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Post by Claire on Nov 27, 2010 14:32:34 GMT 1
I dont think the Armada edition of the Hidden Horse was abridged, kunuma and I did a little compare last night and the money was the same in both so prob the rest hadnt changed either. Not sure about the latest version of the Hidden Horse which was published by J. A. Allen tho.
Hope everyone has a copy of the book now. Thanks to kunuma who lent me one as mine had disappeared. I've read it already! I'll put a poll up and start discussing it in a couple of days. Join in when you're ready.
BTW foxglove most misleading cover is a good subject for a thread/top 10!
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Post by exmoorfan on Nov 29, 2010 22:27:22 GMT 1
Thanks everyone for your help.. I did read the first chapter of All change and it seemed the same as Hidden horse.
I have read it now. I can remember it vaguely as a child.. Not well though.. I think it suits All, Change better as a title.. Or The Hidden Cow..lol
Can see why they changed if it wasn't selling as a pony book..
Quite enjoyed it though.
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Post by fizz on Nov 30, 2010 12:40:19 GMT 1
When are we writing our reviews?
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Post by Claire on Nov 30, 2010 13:01:09 GMT 1
Hi fizz you can start the ball rolling if you like!
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Post by susanb on Nov 30, 2010 22:28:38 GMT 1
Running a little behind......I'm up to the auction now. Don't wait on my account though...I've read it before, so can probably join in even before I've finished.
I really liked this book the first time, and am enjoying it even more the second time round....glad we picked it for a Christmas read!
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Post by susanb on Dec 1, 2010 19:15:06 GMT 1
Finished!
And the first thought I have to offer is WOW...."The Hidden Horse" is definitely a contender for the most inappropriately re-titled books ever. The horse in question doesn't come into the book till roughly halfway through, and only gets a few lines in second half. There is FAR more about Carmen, the rescued cow!
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Post by haffyfan on Dec 1, 2010 19:51:32 GMT 1
okay I'm really behind but as we are snowed in I will give it a shot especially as you are all raving about it. I read it eons ago and as Susan said thought it much more a cow story than a pony one and remember not being overly impressed.... the loose bull down the high street was amusing though I must admit.
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Post by Claire on Dec 1, 2010 21:50:19 GMT 1
I love this book. Altho its about serious subjects like people losing their jobs, beloved cow going for meat, etc, it manages not to get too maudlin and stays light hearted most of them. I do like the big family stories by the PTs, even tho she came from a smaller family of only 3 kids, JPT does them pretty well. Mind you as an adult reading the book and working out the kid's ages (as I am a bit obsessional about that) I thought to myself poor mother, 4 kids in less than 5 years!!! Now thats not something I would have thought about when reading it as a child. ;D The loose bull bit is probably the most striking and amusing episode. The bit in the shop is quite funny (in a dark way) with both the army type and the vet arguing about who was going to shoot the poor bull and the shop girl trying to calm things out by batting her eyelashes at them. I like the bit when Douglas thinks with any luck the major will shoot the vet ;D As Kunuma has said, the Christmas bit is nice even tho it is raining rather than snowing. (unlike in RL now!!!) I like the fact that the animals 'give' presents to everyone which is how its always been with my family too Quite a good plot involving the misunderstandings about the FW and Nick. Really, it is not a horse story as susan said and tbh not even that much of a cow story. The main plot is the threat of the family losing their home and their way of life and also the fact that change sometimes has to happen and is not all bad. I think there is a bit of a theme about people unwisely trying too hard to keep things the same and rebelling against change for the sake of it. Take the incident of the old fogey who refuses to have a bathroom installed even tho it would be better for them! Everyone expects the worst but we do see that lots of things are going to improve with the new regime when they have finally ironed out their differences. I think JPT is someone who likes traditions but can embrace change when it is beneficial and so get the best of both worlds (Remember how she was always championing the forward seat in her early books and pouring scorn on those who refused to adopt it for no good reason other than it was new). This theme is reflected in the original title 'All Change' which is a far better title than The Hidden Horse which was obviously changed to make the book seem more horsy than it actually was. I think some people may be disappointed by the lack of horse stuff and I agree there could have been a little more about Shamrock who is as susan says barely mentioned. But I dont think it spoilt the story really. I like farm stories anyway so it doesnt disappoint me. Will shut up now and let someone else have a crack.
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Post by fizz on Dec 1, 2010 22:27:07 GMT 1
This is one of my favourite books but I didn't read it as a child so I saw it through adult eyes & noticed parts that I would not have done as a 12 year old. I see the book being as it's title one about change. JPT is reacting to the changes that were occurring in British, Post War rural life. The 1950s were a period of great change, the National Health Service was new & radical, there had been a majority Labour Government in the 1940s & early 59s, income tax & land tax had affected the rural land owning classes. The 1950s saw the largest scale demolition of country houses in history. This is the background to the story & we have a family directly affected by these changes; they are not rich, their Father is a land agent for a large estate that had been purchased by a self made man who appears to have little knowledge or sympathy for the countryside or its history. The children are influenced by some of the stories they have heard in the village, they part hear adult conversations, they realise that things are not going to be as cosy or the same again. This tense uncertain background provides a great framework for the story. there are big dramas but nothing seems that momentous. What I love is the depiction of the family. I like the descriptions of the meals, the Mother saying things like "You lay" & of course the build up to Christmas, the presents...love the bit where they put everything on! The Nick bit is gut wrenching, I can imagine something like that happening, but I am very surprised that his identity wasn't common knowledge, surely all those gossipy villagers who didn't want baths in their cottages would have said something. How embarrassing them receiving the presents.... love the bit where she was going to destroy the book! The book was controversial & I read that it had to be edited in some editions in the fact it a reference is made to Mr Smythson being a "Get rich quick Jew Boy" this is in my Armada paperback with the bull on the cover. Is it in later editions I wonder? I do like the fact JPT includes adult bits in her books. We have all come across boorish & racist people like the Colonel. I think it is curious that it was renamed the Hidden Horse as Shamrock has such a small role in the plot. Then again All Change although on reading makes sense, we are not sure what the book is about & the title possibly influenced my not buying it as a child, I certainly saw it in the shops, but probably associated it with train journeys! Loved it & voted excellent.
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Post by Claire on Dec 1, 2010 22:43:15 GMT 1
I think the one I read had the Jew comment in it too, that was slightly later edition from 1972. I somehow dont think it would be in the more recent editions!
I dont agree that the FW was unsympathetic to the countryside/traditions altho he was not knowledgeable and he obviously needs to learn from the others on the farm. After all he buys Carmen back at the end when he finds out what she meant to the farm. I think in a way he's a bit like Nick, not exactly what he seems, people perceive him to be the enemy as he's a newcomer. Still an attitude in the countryside now, altho to be fair its justified in a lot of cases! I think he is eventually seen as a necessary evil and even in some ways better than the old Lord whatsit who used to own the farm. Douglas is chuffed that he gets his name right! And then they are going to get their cross country course too.
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Post by Claire on Dec 1, 2010 22:45:37 GMT 1
Forgot to add yes I agree Fizz that JPT does good adult bits. I have always enjoyed the bits with the Major and Mrs. H in the Noel and Henry books too.
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Post by susanb on Dec 2, 2010 1:35:13 GMT 1
fizz, Claire...the comment is in The Hidden Horse, so it seems to have made it through all editions. I don't think it's something that should be edited out, so I'm glad it wasn't....as fizz says, we've all met these people in the real world, and the way the children's father doesn't just let it pass, but instead blows up at the Colonel is what might be called a "good moral lesson", but told in an interesting, non-treacle-y way.
As everyone has said, it really is a book about change, and how this family is coping with it. I think JPT did a good job presenting the different facets of the dilemma.....the dad not speaking up to the FW because he doesn't feel he has the measure of him rings true. I've BEEN in situations just like that and quite honestly it can go either way. Some bosses are quite convinced that a) they know everything and b) they are always right and would have cheerfully fired the dad and kept on Mr. Ross. The very fact that the FW had HIRED Mr. Ross in the first place is in itself valid cause for concern.
Yet the FW feeling that the dad should have told him about Carmen being the founder of the herd, and that sending her to market would cause a serious rift between him (the FW) and the herdsmen is valid too. That she really presented the different sides of the honest misunderstandings/misjudgement of character without making anyone out as foolish or evil is pretty impressive.
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Post by trixiepony on Dec 2, 2010 11:27:10 GMT 1
It's a good farm story, but not much of a pony story, I didn't like it at first as I was expecting a pony story.
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Post by fizz on Dec 2, 2010 21:36:42 GMT 1
I actually think there are a lot of pony bits as well as farm ones. I will probably write a bit more when I feel better. I have been suffering from the most horrible cold like virus for over a week. Still not right & I have had to go into work as so many other people have come down with it too.
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Post by Claire on Dec 2, 2010 22:38:05 GMT 1
Get well soon fizz
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Post by foxglove on Dec 3, 2010 12:46:54 GMT 1
I had read it before, but the only part I remember is Douglas falling in the river, which I found memorable as I've always had a fear of drowning in rivers.
It obviously wasn't a favourite of mine, as I didn't borrow it from the library more than once; I suspect this may have been because as a child I never liked books written in the first person narrative. Not quite sure why this was, perhaps because I felt you never quite got the "whole story" when told from just one person's view? I have no preference either way as an adult reader.
Anyway, I really enjoyed it, even though I agree with the title being misleading. I think J P-T is one of the best writers for interaction between family members; the rituals, arguments and banter are all believable and endearing, and warmth and good humour really shine through the story. The realities of rural life and agricultural employment give the pony element of the book an interesting twist; ponies do not exist in a vacuum and riders can't take their countryside and way of life for granted. I loved the Christmassy scenes, and the fact that it's a realistic English Christmas, ie raining with the Boxing Day meet a washout rather than picture postcard snow! I also like the fact that the riding is all galloping and messing about doing fun games rather than schooling and competitions.
So overall, very pleased to rediscover this one.
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Post by kunuma on Dec 3, 2010 21:39:20 GMT 1
One of my very favourite PT's. Somewhat odd to read it at the moment as I actually live somewhere very similar to the book's setting, and the same change has happened here! Consoled myself at one point in the book by remembering that in the good old days no one had central heating and we all survived, they had to rush round lighting fires first thing, or take a heater with them in order to sit in a room. Like Claire another thing that struck me this time around was the five children so close together too! She was only 39 with five kids!!! Seemed to have managed to do it without appearing on Jeremy Kyle though! Loved the touches of all the children moving up the clothes as they grew, isn't that what children did then, none of this having to have new ones every five minutes. There is an honesty and a realism in the older PT books which reflects the independence and self reliance of the children in them. Look at how smoking is dealt with - it's not some terrible, illegal banned activity, which just makes kids want to do it more.( They went on about it so much recently that I felt like taking it up just cos I was so fed up with being told I couldn't!) No, instead the oldest boy points out that it is stupid to do it in the stable, he doesn't do it in front of his younger siblings, and Nick shouldn't have been wasting his time smoking he should have been grooming. Now see, that 15 year old had managed to develop a good attitude towards it without the help of the government!! Plus I have a lot of time for children who rescue an animal themselves, look after it and pay for it themselves, and take on the responsibility of rehoming it themselves! One of the books I really wished had sequels - I wanted to spend more time with that family!
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Post by Claire on Dec 3, 2010 21:57:35 GMT 1
I agree Kunuma it would have been nice to have a sequel with the kids schooling Shamrock and doing the cross country course. Also agree about the responsibility issues, kids were much more mature and capable in those days than they are now.
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vera
Pony Clubber
Posts: 247
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Post by vera on Dec 11, 2010 8:53:07 GMT 1
I can't believe I just wrote my comments, went to vote and then didn't post my message so it disappeared. Here I go again. Thanks to Kunuma, I read the book through twice; once for sheer enjoyment and once for the purpose of adding my comments. It is amazing how old age changes your perspective. As a young girl I thought the chapters with Charnworth Chieftain hilariously funny. Perhaps I identified more with the old lady who tried to stop him and was knocked over for her pains. And couldn't believe how everyone simply ran after the bull with no plan of action. I did enjoy the quick thinking blonde with the two glad eyes. Also find it incredible that experienced herdsmen would put heifers in a field which is known to flood when the river is already rising. The family seems to take these disasters in their stride and simply carry on. I found it very heartwarming the way the large and self contained family happily included the waif Nick in their activities. Even when he nearly burns down the ricks, they accept it as a townie mistake. I found the pony content quite adequate and loved the way they arranged turns to be fair to the ponies and each other. I found the characters very sketchily, but adequately drawn. The book is after all plot driven rather than character driven. I also found the relationship between the dad and the fw a bit weird; surely openness and fair dealing should be stock in trade. But I guess I can understand them both playing a waiting game. All in all it was a favourite when I was ten and I still enjoyed it now!
Cheers, Vera
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Post by fizz on Dec 12, 2010 11:03:21 GMT 1
Yes Vera I found the Dad's attitude to Mr Smythson odd too. We all have to get used to changes at work & deal with them in as professional manner as we can. I don't see this with the Dad. Surely he would have been involved, as Land Agent, from the sale going through & would have had a series of meetings with Mr Smythson & the tenants. Mr Smythson is quite right in mentioning that he should have been informed about some of issues: Carmen, the meads etc. Actually I am a bit surprised he was kept on! I am much better, though still coughing a lot!
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Post by kunuma on Dec 12, 2010 13:27:58 GMT 1
Ah, but you are forgetting that the feudal system is still very much alive and well in the countryside! On the big estates the relationship between workers and the owner are still very similar - when your home depends on your boss if he says jump, you say 'how high', and you try to never rock the boat! Incomers make mad decisions too, and no one dares say a word!
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Post by jinglerebel on Dec 29, 2010 1:07:17 GMT 1
I doubt I liked it much as a kid as it's not so much a "pony book" as a story about farm kids who happen to have horses but I enjoyed it on re-read over Christmas. It seemed to be all set up for a sequel with Shamrock and Nick coming to live there and getting a horse etc.
Had a giggle at the "gay young bulls" at the auction, egg-cosies and Carmen's angry moos.
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