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Post by Claire on Mar 29, 2015 18:58:43 GMT 1
Hi all have finally decided to do this one. The Mandrake by Kathleen Herald (aka K M Peyton) Please post if you would like to borrow a copy of the book. I am sending mine to Kunuma but I am sure she will pass it on to the next person. And if anyone else has a copy they can lend please post here too. Discussion will commence in about 10 days time. You can post here before that as long as its nothing spoiler-ish
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Post by fizz on Mar 30, 2015 8:34:48 GMT 1
I'd like to borrow a copy please.
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Post by tintin on Mar 31, 2015 9:38:02 GMT 1
Poor horse to have such a dreadful, ominous name. I have sent for mine and shelled out a bit more for one with a dust jacket as I like the picture.
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Post by Claire on Mar 31, 2015 12:58:33 GMT 1
Yes Tintin its a very nice cover, as are the illustrations. I will get cracking reading this so I can pass it round others. Have read it once but ages ago and I can't remember much about it. Out of her three books I like the other two better but I think this one will generate more discussion as its about a less than perfect horse. Also its a helluva lot easier to find than Crab the Roan which I think is the best of the three.
I think people who haven't read any of the Kathleen Herald books will be amazed at how mature the writing is for a teenager.
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Post by susanb on Mar 31, 2015 15:37:29 GMT 1
Ha! I was thinking the same thing! I remember Sabre and Crab well, but for some reason draw a blank about Mandrake.
Re easy to find....Sabre is the easiest in the US, it actually came out in paperback here (alas, without the lovely Lionel Edwards cover art)...copies start around $5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 7:28:40 GMT 1
The DJ and illustrations are lovely.
I've started reading it and enjoying it again. But one thing that does irritate me, and this applies to all older pony books, is when horses are referred to as "creatures" why can't they just say horse or pony? I guess I'm being very picky but that does irk me as it sounds derogatory to the horse somehow even though they are a creature!
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Post by Claire on Apr 1, 2015 21:36:13 GMT 1
It annoys me too, also when people call horse 'it' rather than he or she. The showjumping commentators on TV are always saying that and it really gets on my goat.
Oh Susan I never realised there was a paperback version of Sabre! I must add that to the website. I'd love to have a picture of it sometime if its not too much trouble.
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Post by susanb on Apr 2, 2015 1:52:42 GMT 1
"creature" doesn't bother me so much in an older book...it's just a term that was used...."all creatures great and small", including people! Claire...your timing is terrible! I just sent that copy of Sabre to Rally yesterday! I've had the hardcover for years now, and have been weeding duplicates (spring cleaning!). There is a copy for sale on ebay that has a pic: www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-vtg-SABRE-HORSE-FROM-SEA-FLY-BY-NIGHT-K-M-Peyton-aka-Kathleen-Herald-1-/281641852658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4193299ef2Russell Hoban did the cover art....not his best work, I'm afraid. I checked my laptop and flash drives and my photobucket account, to see if I had a scan, but no luck. Will double check cds...I remember I burned some files when I switched from my old pc to laptop, and there might be some cover art scans. (Back in the day....way, waaaaay back, I planned to embed cover art scans in my book database. HA!!!! )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 7:26:50 GMT 1
Gets my goat too and also "brute"
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Post by Claire on Apr 2, 2015 11:12:03 GMT 1
Haha Susan my timing is always terrible lol. Thanks for looking for me but no worries. I will have a look at the ebay one for sale and ask if I can use the pic if its any good.
Grrr 'brute' REALLY annoys me!
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Post by tintin on Apr 2, 2015 16:57:55 GMT 1
We're all creatures cos we're created.
"It" does annoy me - if they don't know the poor horse's gender say "the horse" or "Major X's mount" or something, anything else
I once wrote to a newspaper (I was n't published) because they described horses as "expensive sports equipment" a horse should be your long faced pal, he is not a bat or a ball - he has opinions about what sort of games he might play
On a lighter note it used to be much more regarded as a rule of good English than it is today not to repeat the same nouns in the same passage. I remember on a drafting course being cautioned against it, but at the same time being cautioned against going too far. This was done by showing us two pieces of unintentionally hilarious 19th century journalism where the authors had got progressively more desparate. One involved an escaped bear which rampaged though a town in France ("the ursine fugitive", "furry denizen of the forest" and "brother bruin") the second was even more desparate as it was about a court case on the fitness for human consumption of a fishmonger's stock. The case hung on the condition of one fish's eye - the journalist gave up after "dexter orbit"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 20:18:30 GMT 1
lol Tintin. Well the "creature" thing irritated me right up until the end. I'll keep quiet now until others have read it...
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Post by Claire on Apr 2, 2015 21:04:45 GMT 1
Haha Tintin I've seen similar stuff to that before in published books and it is quite unintentionally funny.
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Post by darkhorse on Apr 3, 2015 22:03:46 GMT 1
Could I borrow a copy please?
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Post by Claire on Apr 6, 2015 23:07:58 GMT 1
I've got a copy that will be doing the rounds shortly but I haven't finished reading it and it has to go to 2 other people first so you may be a bit late to the party.
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Post by rallycairn on Apr 8, 2015 22:53:40 GMT 1
Susan has sent me a whole LIBRARY (THANK YOU, SUSAN!) and if you want that copy of Sabre I will send it to you, Claire.
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Post by Claire on Apr 8, 2015 23:01:10 GMT 1
Thanks Rally. I do have a copy of Sabre tho in hardback. It was just a pic of the paperback I wanted for the website!
I have finished my copy so I'll stick it in the post to Kunuma then she can pass it onto Fizz and so on!
Has anyone else finished it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 6:34:36 GMT 1
Has anyone else finished it? Yes
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Post by brumby on Apr 10, 2015 3:56:34 GMT 1
Yes I've finished should be an interesting discussion!
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Post by tintin on Apr 14, 2015 16:37:35 GMT 1
I've finished too - when can we set the ball rolling? Quite an unusual and interesting book
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Post by kunuma1 on Apr 14, 2015 17:39:11 GMT 1
I've finished my borrowed copy but I'm having drastic computer probs so may not get back on but could someone tell me where I have to send it next please. I really liked it at the start, but it seemed to lose it's way and by the end I wasn't so fond of it! I do get bored by endless descriptions of showjumping rounds - one of those things that's fun to do and watch, but not so much to read about!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 18:03:18 GMT 1
I've already forgotten what happens in it!
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Post by Claire on Apr 14, 2015 19:46:56 GMT 1
Oh dear what have you been doing to that computer now kunuma? It goes to Fizz next if you can PM her for her address, if not give me a ring and I'll pass it on to you.
Instead of harping on for hours I will just make a few points and see what others think about them:
It was very well written, especially considering the author's age at the time. But did anyone else but me find the main character not very likeable? She seemed a bit pot hunter-ish. She didn't come across as if she cared about the horse as a living creature (ooh I'm saying creature now Rosie lol) but that she valued him more for his looks and his talent. What did people think the story was trying to say? Judging from the end I am assuming that Lesley was actually learning to appreciate The Mandrake and welcome his faults as part of his charm. In which case the author may have been making Lesley a bit unlikeable to show her as she learns to accept that horses and life have their faults,
I did find it quite amusing that the younger sister quietly bought a horse and with no fuss at all won the competition!
I actually liked The Mandrake as a horsy character and he certainly had his own personality. What do other folk think about the comment that he was 'mad'?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 7:39:24 GMT 1
Thanks for jogging my memory Claire, and don't you start with the creature thing lol I gave it a very good as I agree it was very well written for someone that age. However I found the main character an irritating pot hunter! Win at all cost! All she cared about was how a horse looked, I felt sorry for her first pony, he was just a machine to win cups on. She kept banging on about how ugly the poor pony was, I wanted to slap her! So many ponyless girls/boys would have loved that pony no matter what it looked like. Grrrr! But I think you are right Claire the author was trying to show her growing up with the Mandrake and learning about life. The Mandrake wouldn't have been my cup of tea but I don't think he was "mad" he just had a mind of his own and I like the way the author lets us into the Mandrakes thoughts so we understand his character. It's beautifully illustrated by Lionel Edwards too I agree with Kunuma that endless descriptions of show jumping rounds does get a bit tedious sometimes.
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Post by Claire on Apr 15, 2015 23:29:23 GMT 1
I'm glad someone else was irritated by the heroine!
I also have to agree that the showjumping rounds were a bit tedious, but its pretty hard to make them interesting. Joanna Cannan was good at them cos she made them quite humourous. That brings me to another point. There wasn't much humour in the book at all.
I seem to recall that the Mandrake didn't have a very good breaking in/training. Lesley seemed to be on his wavelength and to be fair to her she had a lot of confidence in him despite his reputation and did pretty well with him. I'm not sure if his poor performances in the show jumping ring as opposed to home was due to his own quirks or actually it was Lesley, through wanting to win so much, who was transmitting her nerves to the horse?
To me the book seemed too long for the story. Not much happened and the message the author was trying to give the reader about learning to accept less than perfection and that winning is not all important could have been delivered a lot quicker, maybe in a short story even. Atcually I would say her other early book Crab the Roan has a similar message but its wrapped up in a nicer story and a far more sympathetic heroine. Pity the damned thing is so rare.
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Post by tintin on Apr 16, 2015 12:35:47 GMT 1
I'm not going to dissent from the consensus on this book, but will add a few of my own impressions
The book was beautifully presented with excellent illustrations. It was very well written, but with a taut suspenseful style (particularly in the early parts) I would more normally associate with a detective story.
I found the adult characters a particularly poor lot. I did n't warm to the artist dealer, Mr Congress, and found it interesting many of his horses had ominous names (Belladona, Witchcraft and the Mandrake himself.) The father I thought lacked leadership skills, imagination and empathy and suffered from an excess of temper - not a good role model. The judge at the hunter trails was truly dreadful - a complete plank.
The Mandrake was an unpredictable, immature and silly horse rather than a bad one, I think he needed an older lady who was a bit more patient and not quite so target fixated to ride him. Showing (which Lesley was contemptuous of) would have been better for him. Bad he had hardly been handled at all until he was three (I would n't be surprised if he was late gelded too)
I too can only take so much show jumping, but, of its type, I thought it very well done here.
On a more abstract note this struck me as a book about love. Lesley was besotted with the Mandrake, but mainly due to his looks/image rather than his actual nature. Oddly this love survived all kinds of scrapes and perservered despite, rather than because, of what he was like. I can understand this - though not about thoroughbreds who I have always thought of as bags of nerves prone to lower leg problems (I grew up in the "bone beats blood" school)
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Post by kunuma1 on Apr 16, 2015 21:49:52 GMT 1
Didn't like the heroine at all!! In my experience horses and dogs labelled mad are usually of a higher energy and intelligence level than the owners, hence the label! I was confused about how old the characters were supposed to be - were they children on school holidays? Seemed to have nothing to do except ride? Loved the illustrations. Please can Fizz let me have her address and I'll send it on. PS It's not me wrecking the computer, it's AVG!!
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Post by brumby on Apr 16, 2015 23:54:58 GMT 1
To say that i found Lesley annoying was putting it mildly! Throughout the book I really wanted to stuff her head into a barrow of fresh manure! How ungrateful can anyone be? Most horse crazy kids would have been so happy to have beautiful Bellamy who tried so hard and had won many jumping competitions, the way Lesley constantly criticised and called her ugly made me sick I personally believe that whatever animal comes into your life you accept them warts and all (as they accept you) My experience is with dogs rather than horses and I can honesty say that some of the most damaged souls can be healed with time and patience. This is something Lesley did not do with The Mandrake she threw him in, he had little experience when she got him and the next thing she has him in a competition because it is so important for her to WIN!!!!! She put him in danger by recklessly jumping at night and putting over high jumps when he was inexperienced. Not sure that I really believed Lesley changed in the end? Her obsession with winning and horses that look good was so strong throughout the book. It really makes me angry when people think an animal is better because of its bloodlines "I've always wanted a blood pony' attitude! and that 'looks' make the pony better. When I was a young pony crazed girl I cared for a horse called Nimbus, her conformation was poor (long body, big chunky legs, big head) but she had a kind disposition and a beautiful soul, I loved her and it pained me when people thought she was ugly, so I guess this book really touched a nerve. I did really like Mandrake, with a different type of owner who allowed him more time and more understanding and stopped taking him to shows that he found difficult to cope with he would have really shone. Do I think he was mad not at all, just needed to find the right person to show him the way. Agree with Kunuma that the adults in the story were dodgy, did not like the father at all. I did get a bit sick of the endless showjumping but then I dislike competitive sports anyway, especially involving animals (probably cause people act the way Lesley did) A bit of advice for Lesley if your pony is not doing well in the ring have a good look at yourself cause you are supposed to be a TEAM! Overall I didn't dislike the book (cause I loved the ponies) but it did evoke strong emotions in me, I have now read it twice and have felt the same way both times. Lesley is one of my most disliked pony book characters. Good choice for an Easter read. I think i will now reread Crab the roan!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 6:33:43 GMT 1
LOL Brumby I think there might be a Queue to do that to Lesley I totally agree with you about Bellamy. I would have loved him had he been mine
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Post by haffyfan on Apr 17, 2015 15:47:05 GMT 1
Grr just somehow managed to loose my post!
I have only read half so far and it was late but i found the first few pages confusing, didn't she go on about Bellamy's breeding (or did i misunderstand - i'll reread that bit later) but basically i agree with Rosie's post a little higher about how terribly she treat this pony...yet there was some affection as she wouldn't sell. I was also quite surprised no one batted an eye lid when her sister rode the pony in the jump off to win. Can you imagine changing rider nowadays?!
Must agree with the comments about the maturity of the writing, you wouldn't guess a teenager had written it when compared the other stuff by young writers out there at that point.
I've forgotten most of what i typed now but i'll add more when i remember and finish of course.
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