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Post by susanb on Dec 21, 2014 20:58:07 GMT 1
Yikes! The kindle version has the racial stereotypes cut out, which I suppose is one benefit of modern day editing. They do, however, become in essence racist by omission....it's not like positive characters are added, it's just that the non-white characters are cut out of the book...the same thing happened with the Nancy Drew books when they began to revise the earlier books in the series in 1959.
I read basically the last 30 pages or so in the Seagull edition, and had taken note of the plastic flower and use of the word colored, which was not acceptable even then, though Negro certainly was. You still see vestiges of it in the names of some groups....i.e. The United Negro College Fund. I don't remember African American being used as a term till Jesse Jackson popularized it during one of his presidential campaigns, and even now there are black people who object to it because their ancestors didn't come from Africa.
In CPTs defense, she might well have seen rural poverty in the US in the 1950s, though depending on the region she visited it could just have easily been white people living in shacks. President Lyndon Johnson's "War on Poverty" legislation began to take effect in the mid 60s, but rural poverty, where population is sparse and people live far from urban areas where aid is often concentrated, is particularly hard to address. It was in 1968 that Robert F. Kennedy, President Kennedy's younger brother, toured Appalachia and was devastated by the level of poverty he saw there...he was basically the last person I can think of who campaigned on the issue of relief for those people left behind by economic prosperity...modern politicians usually target the middle class, as they're more likely to vote. Pathetic, really.
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Post by Claire on Dec 21, 2014 22:17:30 GMT 1
Great review of the book fizz! I was also uncomfortable reading about 'negros' and "coloureds" but as fizz said this was a product of the time and to be fair I think CPT was actually trying to be non-racist. Amongst the older generation of Brits 'coloured' is considered a non-offensive term as opposed to the fairly unpleasant terms the generation before that would use.
I think CPT is also trying to be fair in her portrayal of white Americans too by emphasising their good qualities. You also see that in her other Anglo-American book Riders From Afar when the British kids adopt their American friends' ideas. If you compare her to many other authors of the time in their negative and jingoistic portrayal of non-British characters, for example Enid Blyton, she comes across as pretty open minded and liberal. Blyton and others of that ilk were of the school that sees white middle to upper class Britishers as superior to all others!
I do agree with those who say CPT seemed to have had a fairly blinkered cliched view of Americans. I don't know how long she stayed in America but it does seem as though she had only a brief and fairly narrow experience of the country, perhaps filling in the gaps with stereotypes of American life and people.
I think it would be quite interesting to to a group read sometime of a book written by an American author set in the UK and look at the dichotomy from the other angle.
Fizz - sounds like that Armada edition was also revised to some extent as they went by sea in the older editions, not flying.
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Post by fizz on Dec 21, 2014 23:01:43 GMT 1
No they go by sea in my version, I was comparing it to the Ladybird travel books where the children do fly. No the Armada has a lot of good detail of the crossing, including the description of joining the ship, the facilities, food and entertainments.
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Post by fizz on Dec 21, 2014 23:11:11 GMT 1
One thing I forgot to add in my review of the book is Phantom's sexuality. As he was stealing mares I assume he was a stallion but I can't recall him being described as such. Can we assume that Dr Beecher performs an additional treatment? He must be a gelding once he returns to the UK.
There is a big gap between the publication of Phantom Horse and Phantom Horse Comes Home, fifteen years in fact. I wonder why she chose to resurrect the story. It's a while since I read any of the sequels but I seem to think that they are set in the time they were written, the 1970s. That's pretty odd isn't it?
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Post by susanb on Dec 21, 2014 23:44:09 GMT 1
Sounds like a great idea to me! The only one I can think of that would be easy to find in the UK is Holiday Summer by Decie Merwin (published in the US as Somerhaze Farm)...I think the UK edition is actually easier source, and cheaper. To add to the appropriateness, the visiting American is from Virginia, the same state in which the English family in Phantom Horse are residing. deciemerwin.ponymadbooklovers.co.uk/edited to say, I just checked, and this book is actually cheaper to find in it's English edition in the US than is the US printing! Go figure! It's cheaper still in the UK, starting at 64p
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Post by Claire on Dec 22, 2014 1:37:38 GMT 1
There is a big gap between the publication of Phantom Horse and Phantom Horse Comes Home, fifteen years in fact. I wonder why she chose to resurrect the story. It's a while since I read any of the sequels but I seem to think that they are set in the time they were written, the 1970s. That's pretty odd isn't it? Its a bit like when DPT brought out the last book in the Christina and Augusta series (Only a Pony) after a huge gap, I think that was set in more up to date times than the first 3. In the case of Phantom series I have a feeling it was some editor asking her to resurrect the characters and add a bit more melodrama to the stories - hence the adventure element in the others. Thanks for the info on the Armada copy. I had thought it wasn't revised so was a bit surprised when I thought it had missed out the boat trip. Not sure about the photo cover Armada - I think thats the only one we don't know for sure is revised or not. If anyone has that copy I'd be interested to know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 7:35:06 GMT 1
Yes I agree. I don't think these things should be cut out. It's history and you can't change what happened. It's a good way of comparing how attitudes have changed over the years.
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Post by brumby on Dec 22, 2014 22:30:05 GMT 1
I also rated this book good, even though there were a few things in it that annoyed me. Have enjoyed reading the discussion so far really interesting to get other peoples opinions.
I found the scene with the snake overly graphic and unnecessary but I guess in those times people had different views about wild animals.
I guess the part that annoyed me the most was when Angus and Jean were left home alone and went chasing the palomino: 'the ground was strewn with boulders and they jumped some, avoided others and stumbled recklessly over the rest' 'We left the trees at last, and started to gallop down an old ravine; now the sound of falling boulders was added to that of galloping hoofs, as the horses slipped and slid, keeping their balance only by a miracle'
This is not adventure, but plain stupidity, putting the poor horses (borrowed horses at that) into such dangerous situations! Also how many times did they have to go off alone and get lost?
I also found the ending disappointing, as its one of my pet hates that some books suddenly finish, with a few paragraphs to tie up the loose ends.
Haven't read the other in the series, might give the second one a go (but it doesn't sound promising)
Hope things are improving for all of those that have experienced bad times this year, sadly its been the same for me lost my dear little GSP earlier this year, followed by me Dad last month, two beautiful souls that I was privileged to have shared my life with. Hugs to all those that have had a rough time, lets hope for a more joyous time in 2015!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 7:02:07 GMT 1
I forgot to mention that! Yes agree a rather sudden and slightly disappointing end. Also agree re galloping recklessly over boulders and the snake thing was pretty revolting Me too, sorry to hear about your loses Brumby, can totally relate to that
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 23, 2014 18:32:59 GMT 1
Is this the first book we have done that everyone has scored the same for?? I'm soo out of touch with all this political correctness jargon - I've only just caught up with Red Indians being Native Americans now, although I would have thought that the Indian part said more about the geography skills of the travellers who found them than anything else!
If black and coloured is now politically incorrect (and like Claire said I'm obviously giving my age away as I thought those terms were the politically correct ones!!) I assume it's also incorrect to say whites! How on earth do you describe people then, witnesses to a crime must have fun if they aren't allowed to mention skin colour! We'll be in trouble when the aliens arrive, no one will be able to mention that they are little (sizeist) or green (racist) so we will just have to say they look exactly the same as everyone else!! lol
Was it Fizz that mentioned the whole stallion/gelding thing - I had thought that but didn't mention it - I think we will have to assume he was a rig!! lol (Just as long as he doesn't throw a Phantom foal................oh no, wrong book!!) PS Think I have that Holiday Summer one, will have to go and have a look.
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Post by haffyfa n on Dec 23, 2014 21:00:46 GMT 1
There is a big gap between the publication of Phantom Horse and Phantom Horse Comes Home, fifteen years in fact. I wonder why she chose to resurrect the story. It's a while since I read any of the sequels but I seem to think that they are set in the time they were written, the 1970s. That's pretty odd isn't it? Its a bit like when DPT brought out the last book in the Christina and Augusta series (Only a Pony) after a huge gap, I think that was set in more up to date times than the first 3. In the case of Phantom series I have a feeling it was some editor asking her to resurrect the characters and add a bit more melodrama to the stories - hence the adventure element in the others. Thanks for the info on the Armada copy. I had thought it wasn't revised so was a bit surprised when I thought it had missed out the boat trip. Not sure about the photo cover Armada - I think thats the only one we don't know for sure is revised or not. If anyone has that copy I'd be interested to know. The photo copy Armada is the one i have and i don't think it's revised as it was the same as the first for the first chapter. I've found an award copy of comes home which is the same as the ravette in terms of updating/abridging. It's been modernism and made more PC...for example a smoking reference removed in the first few pages and London airport becomes Heathrow. I think some of the simple sentence structure Susan mentions is in part where the sentences were edited to omit the non pc stuff, thats how the first few pages of Comes home read anyhow. I read Comes Home long before Phantom Horse...it was the only pony book other than The switch Horse in my primary school library so yeah i borrowed it every other week lol... so i do have a fondness for it but i don't think iot's that bad compared to the later ones like Goes to Scotland and wait for me, they did get very far fetched and contrived. I'm about to reread, the hopefully original text, picture cover Armada (so 1st edition i think?) to see if it's as bad as some of you say. I think having read this first i totally blanked the abrupt ending later when i read Phantom horse, plus as a child i wouldn't have noticed anyhow, and lack of 'taming' and nursing to health as the Phantom i knew was schooling well. I seem to have collected rather a collection of various editions of the titles, they are certainly well published so publishers must have seen (still be seeing) something they liked and they must have sold well. It would be interesting to know figures for sales - is this sort of information available anywhere like it is with modern day best sellers?
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Post by darkhorse on Jan 7, 2015 19:56:17 GMT 1
I got stuck on this half way through and didn't get any further due to all the Christmas holiday mayhem. Just managed toi finish now. I read it years ago when young and I really liked it then, but this time around it has not grabbed my attention, possibly because it the revised edition. Fizz, I wonder whether it's popularity and number of printings is the American angle? It surely would have been quite exotic for children to read about America in the 1950s and now, even though we are very familiar with the USA it still holds a certain appeal for a lot of people. Its certainly a bit different from the usual run of the mill gymkhana type story. There wasn't much of Christmas in it, but it was interesting to read about different Christmas customs in the USA. I voted good on the strength of remembering the original text version ( it would have been the old Armada paperback probably) but the revised edition really only merits an average.
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