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Post by Claire on Dec 16, 2014 17:06:11 GMT 1
I've read almost half way through. I'm reading the Collins seagull library edition which I don't think is revised, and also flicking thought the Award hardback edition from 1997 which is abridged (stated on publishing details) and also updated. The Award edition is quite different from the other and has a lot missing. There is only a very short bit before they arrive in the USA, also they fly to the States rather than go by boat. The Whippy saddles are now just plain saddles. A lot of what the Miller kids do when they come to visit has been removed, they don't play hide and seek (too childish for teens of today?) and the snake incident does not occur at all (probably non-PC to have someone killing a snake). Its obviously been comprehensively updated for the reader of the 1990s in the way I was moaning about earlier lol. I wonder if the newer paperbacks and kindle editions have been updated again? Thats the trouble with updating - where do you draw the line - 10 or even 5 years later and there could be things out of date in your revised edition! Anyway I certainly would not recommend the Award edition as its so different from the original.
I haven't read a CPT book for ages and I'd forgotten how irritating her heroines can be, so self-absorbed and full of mood swings, they are either ecstatically happy about things or in the depths of depression.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:06:15 GMT 1
And then you'll just be left with the covers lol I think Wendy found her irritating at times and they thought English children very polite to the point of irritation. There you go, you could revise that nowadays, no one is polite anymore!
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Post by Claire on Dec 16, 2014 20:42:51 GMT 1
Lol Rosie. Forgot to mention the illustrations in the Award hb edition are pretty awful! They could at least have used some of Sheila Rose's.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:17:32 GMT 1
I can just imagine!
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 17, 2014 17:33:51 GMT 1
In an attempt not to dwell on the obvious part about Christmas which sends my blood pressure through the roof even to think about it, I am concentrating on the food aspect. Now, is candy cane the same as our rock? If so how did it get to be associated with Christmas, as rock (sort of sweet pepperminty solid sticks) is very much only associated over here with summer and the seaside. In another American book I'm sure I've read that they stuck popcorn on the tree??? Erm - they obviously didn't have a dog!! Plus isn't that rather a waste of food?? Can you imagine hoovering up needles and soggy popcorn! lol
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Post by susanb on Dec 17, 2014 18:02:56 GMT 1
Candy canes are striped red and white, so look festive....and the hook end makes them ideal for hanging on a tree. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_canestrung popcorn and/or cranberries are a traditional garland, though the number of people who actually do this has probably dropped dramatically in recent...well, decades really You can actually buy fake popcorn and cranberry garlands now! There also used to be a tradition of gingerbread men ornaments. All of this dates to an earlier day when trees were cut and put up on Christmas eve and out the door a day or so after....all the goodies would have been taken off the tree and eaten on Christmas day, so really they'd have been on the tree for a few hours. I expect the short time a tree would be up just didn't justify buying a lot of permanent, expensive ornaments for the average family...not to mention the fact that the tree would have been lit with real candles in little clip on chamber sticks! The last thing you'd have wanted to put on a tree would be something flammable!
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 17, 2014 19:58:07 GMT 1
Candy canes are striped red and white, so look festive....and the hook end makes them ideal for hanging on a tree. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_canestrung popcorn and/or cranberries are a traditional garland, though the number of people who actually do this has probably dropped dramatically in recent...well, decades really You can actually buy fake popcorn and cranberry garlands now! There also used to be a tradition of gingerbread men ornaments. All of this dates to an earlier day when trees were cut and put up on Christmas eve and out the door a day or so after....all the goodies would have been taken off the tree and eaten on Christmas day, so really they'd have been on the tree for a few hours. I expect the short time a tree would be up just didn't justify buying a lot of permanent, expensive ornaments for the average family...not to mention the fact that the tree would have been lit with real candles in little clip on chamber sticks! The last thing you'd have wanted to put on a tree would be something flammable! Crumbs even that started in Germany, have we got any bit of Christmas that didn't start in Germany! Gotta wonder who and why first came up with the idea of putting lit candles on a tree though!! PS Cranberries must have been a lot cheaper back then, I couldn't even afford to buy a tiny pack the other day!!
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Post by Claire on Dec 17, 2014 21:01:41 GMT 1
My mind boggles at the thought of fake strands of popcorn!!!
You can buy candy canes to put on your tree over here as well though. When we were kids we had little chocolate decorations on the tree and then ate them when the tree came down.
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Post by susanb on Dec 18, 2014 1:05:39 GMT 1
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Post by Claire on Dec 18, 2014 2:01:05 GMT 1
Back to the actual book though...I've no idea how to vote on this one...I've been going back and forth between the Seagull and the Kindle editions...the Seagull is good, the Kindle is pretty bad....so much has been cut out! I think the kindle version is probably similar to the Award hb version. Pretty poor! I think its best to vote on the older versions as they represent the actual story as CPT wrote it. Possibly worth a comment on amazon about how the kindle version has been pulverised. Its a shame cos I think kids of today would appreciate the older stories more than the poor adulterated revisions they are being offered. I might have a peek in the local horsy shop to see if the new paperback Phantom is the same. Pretty sure it will be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 7:39:59 GMT 1
I'll send the book back after Christmas Claire as no one else seems to want it
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Post by susanb on Dec 18, 2014 16:32:21 GMT 1
Cranberries are a big crop in the US, particularly in Massachusetts, where I live, so they're not expensive here (back then or today). When my grandmother was a girl, she used to pick cranberries for pocket money...not her favorite job though, I guess they're a difficult crop to harvest by hand...it's done by machine now.
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Post by rallycairn on Dec 18, 2014 17:32:33 GMT 1
Great, I got an email yesterday from the abebooks seller I ordered from that the book could not be found on their shelves. Humph. I want to avoidxthe kindle edition because of the edits and who knows if I could even get my kindles to work. I am still with nook, so much better for my needs.
It was a seagull ed. Will try again.
This book's cultural references sound very dated to their time.
Glad a cardinal is mentioned - I remember bringnling them up in a previous Christmss thread when robins came up. Our robins are not really associated with Christmas at all but cardinals are with their year-round red coloring.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:54:17 GMT 1
How annoying Rally! Good luck finding another one.
Now you come to mention it I do remember a thread about Robins and Cardinals being Christmas birds.
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Post by Claire on Dec 18, 2014 20:43:32 GMT 1
Rally shame you have had trouble getting the book. You are welcome to have the one Rosie has at the moment (old paperback as far as I know not edited or abridged or at least not much). Perhaps if you sorted something out with Rosie regarding postage costs to the USA she would be able to post it off to you? Or I could send it when Rosie had returned it but it would be after Christmas.
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Post by rallycairn on Dec 19, 2014 4:07:44 GMT 1
Rosie, I would be glad to send you postage, but I am not sure how to do that with someone in the UK. Paypal maybe??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 6:37:07 GMT 1
Rally I think the best thing would be if I post it back to Claire today as I'm not sure how to go about it. Claire's got more experience with this sort of thing than me! I was only going to leave sending it back till after Christmas as no one wanted it and there wasn't any rush. I'll pop down the post office today
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Post by trixiepony on Dec 19, 2014 10:38:37 GMT 1
Well I enjoyed my copy, it had them going by ship, Jean dus not sound like she wounts to go at first but likes it ones she's there. It's funny how thay keep on saying how big the outher kids are, Wendy rides a roan pony how's meant too be 13 hands or so, so she can't be too big, and one time when Angus is riding he's worried if the pony can stand his weight, maybe he's over weight, a fat kid, but there's no menshion off it, just that Jean and Augus feel so small next to them.
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Post by Claire on Dec 19, 2014 12:21:22 GMT 1
Thanks Rosie but I won't be at home over Christmas so I still couldn't get it there til afterwards!
Trixie I noticed that also in Riders From Afar they kept commenting on how big the American kids were in that book too. There seemed to be an idea in that era that American children were bigger and more grown up than British kids. In the Malory Towers books by Enid Blyton there was the American girl Zerelda who wore lipstick and her hair in a grown up style, etc. (Mind you she was a bit of a parody I dont think Enid Blyton liked Americans very much) Not sure if it was actually true that they were bigger or not. If so perhaps it was cos there was still rationing in the UK for years after the war? can't see any other reason for it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 13:03:28 GMT 1
I've posted it but it won't get to you by Christmas now anyway so they said. The cars and just about everything were supposed to be bigger in America than in England back then weren't they? I've often wondered how true that stereotype was...
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Post by susanb on Dec 19, 2014 15:12:07 GMT 1
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Post by fizz on Dec 19, 2014 19:11:54 GMT 1
Maybe they were bigger and better developed as they hadn't had the same levels of rationing during the war years. The first edition was published in 1955 so just ten years after war and rationing continued in the UK until 1954, just one year before the book. So that might account from the difference in growth rates, or a perceived difference.
I have enjoyed my re-read and will be commenting soon.
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Post by haffyfan on Dec 20, 2014 10:57:31 GMT 1
I'm finished now, i really enjoyed my reread as i've only ever read, unknown at the time, a highly abridged and updated version so it was nice to get the full story and all those added extras. CPT is my least favourite of the sisters, theres a fair few of her books i would not reread but this and it's sequel especially are probably my favourites of her. I do think a childhood fondness helps a little though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 12:32:37 GMT 1
I was going to agree with you until I looked up all her books and realised there are an awful lot I do like for instance the David and Pat, Mick and Janice and Fishers and Allcotts series. Whilst I enjoyed Phantom horse I'm not sure I'd enjoy the rest of that series as they appear to be adventure types which bore the pants off me.
Black Pony Inn is awful but I haven't read the Riding School series so must rectify that at some point....
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Post by tintin on Dec 20, 2014 17:30:52 GMT 1
Susan - re Massachusetts and Cranberries - I went on a band tour to Boston and every bandsman could not resist "bog frogs" the name is just so revolting to our British ears. I don't think the people at the airport really understood why we wanted so many...
Not a lover of Phantom Horse series, but this is the best book - I found the next one so irritating i gave up. There should have been a book between 1 and 2 about how he got better and (sort of) adjusted to his new life.
Thanks for good wishes everyone - I have just been in bed for 4 days with a virus so apologies for not replying sooner.
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Post by Claire on Dec 21, 2014 1:09:32 GMT 1
Oh dear you have been in the wars Tintin hope you are feeling better. Well just when I was thinking 2014 had done its worse more trouble for my family. My brother hurt his leg playing football a couple of weeks ago then the great clumsy twit fell of a chair putting Xmas decorations up, landed on his leg and has done some serious damage to it. He has to go for an operation on it. So he's on crutches, my mum is in a sling and I'm on valium lol.
But back to the discussion. Rosie, the riding school series is quite good although as in a lot of CPT's books there is the usual angst and downbeat atmosphere. I think the best of CPT's books is The Horse Sale, followed by I Rode a Winner. I agree with Tintin that this is the best of the Phantom series. As Rosie said above, most of the others were adventures, which I am not that fond of either. Phantom Horse Come Home is quite nerve wracking and irritated me as it was completely unrealistic to have Phantom shipped to the UK and really selfish on the part of Jean to subject him to the journey. And then there is another in the series where Angus gets bored with horses and wants a motorbike - makes you want to slap him!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 7:21:06 GMT 1
Crikey Claire You have got a lot on your plate right now! I'm looking forward to Christmas even less this year since I lost my Dad a few months ago Mum is struggling a bit... Tintin hope the lurgy has left you now. Well I definitely don't want to read the rest of Phantom books after those comments!
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Post by susanb on Dec 21, 2014 17:25:54 GMT 1
Good grief, everyone is sick or on the injured list! I hope you're doing better, Tintin, and that Claire's Mum and brother are on the mend soon!
Finished the book this morning....I voted good, though that's really a bit of Christmas excess....probably somewhere between good and average, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt. Not by any means my favorite of her work, my faves would be The Chill Valley Hounds trilogy, the Pat and David trilogy, The Impossible Horse and I Rode a Winner.
Back to this book though...in places the sentence structure seemed overly simple.....maybe it was written for a younger age group than her other books? Even so.
And of course I kept being taken out of it by some odd bits of Americana that she was definitely off on....for Christmas, Jean and Angus receive half pint glasses to have mint juleps in come summer.....eeek! I'll assume that CPT never had (or saw a recipe for) a mint julep...it's basically a glass full of whiskey!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 18:48:37 GMT 1
I've got The Impossible Horse to read. I liked The Horse Sale too Claire. lol at the mint juleps
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Post by fizz on Dec 21, 2014 19:51:57 GMT 1
I read the Armada version with the painting of Jean and Phantom on the cover. It seemed to have a lot of detail, so maybe wasn't that heavily abridged. The beginning reminded me a little of the Ladybird travel series Flight 3 USA Where John and Alison travel with their Father all around the country and in other versions to other countries too.
However my first impression was anger and shock at how Afro-Caribbean Americans were portrayed. Of course when the book was published in 1955 segregation still existed. It makes for uncomfortable reading and surely must have been taken out of later publications, especially terms like Negro. The black characters are so terribly stereotyped, though I get the feeling that CPT was trying not to but failing miserably. "Annie was slim, her hair permed. She was not like one of the old Negro mammies one sees so often in films" and "...but for ages we just passed wooden shacks....inside I could large black families eating around a table, and though many coloured people are rich. I could see that these were not...." Jean also buys a plastic flower for the "black girl who helps Mummy" to wear in her hat.
In actual fact the book is one big stereotype and reads like someone who has been on holiday to the USA a few times or worked there in a very closed section of society and not travelled. It forms a picture of the country a lot of British people had at this time, because they read these sorts of books, or gleaned aspects from films and probably thought all Americans ate corn all the time and had waffles, like my Dad thought everyone had peaches and maple syrup with bacon and eggs because of one wartime experience. The horses are paints, palominos, buckskins etc. there is a wild horse, a round up, I am surprised there wasn't a rodeo.
In spite of all this I found it an escapist read. As a child, and it is the original one I had, complete with coloured in pictures, I enjoyed it too. I have kept it when other pony books were dispersed. I am sure though, I wasn't aware of the mild racism within it or the stereotyping of the characters. After all black people got a pretty raw deal in many of the books I read at that time, The Famous Five and the Adventure Series by Enid Blyton, and there is nothing fearful about their portrayal in Phantom Horse, unlike the books by Blyton.
I thought it tailed off a little at the end , almost as if she was bored or had run out of steam, I for one would have liked more detail about the horse's illness, it's treatment and how they tamed it. I have read some of the sequels and recall them being very bad, the American differences make this a more interesting story and maybe it's a pity Jean and Angus didn't travel to a few more countries like Alison and John in the Ladybird books. Phantom Horse goes to The Holy Land and India could have been interesting.
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