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Post by Claire on Oct 14, 2014 18:03:19 GMT 1
Our spooky Halloween read this year is a ghost story by Angela Dorsey. Its an easy and cheap book to find in both UK and USA and is also available on kindle - tho the Kindle edition may be abridged? Will try and confirm. Its a pretty short book so won't take long to read. We may as well start discussion on Halloween itself - that will give plenty of time for everyone who wants to take part to beg, borrow or steal a copy and read it. If anyone would like to borrow a copy from me please post here.
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Post by Claire on Oct 22, 2014 23:43:59 GMT 1
Hi all just a quick reminder in case the post has been overlooked that this is the book for our Halloween read. My copy has been booked out to 2 people already lol but it can be passed on to anyone else who wants to read it if they don't mind catching up with the rest of us. Depending on when most people have had a chance to read we will start discussion on around end October / start of November.
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Post by darkhorse on Oct 26, 2014 19:09:50 GMT 1
I will join in with this one. I have an Amazon voucher to spend. I may get the kindle version. Did anyone find out if it was abridged or not?
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Post by susanb on Oct 30, 2014 14:07:15 GMT 1
I started reading it, but it's hard to say if it's abridged or not...unlike most kindle books, the "go to" doesn't bring up a list of chapters, or any page counts. Thinking about it, I can't imagine they'd go to the effort of editing it...what would be the point?
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Post by Claire on Oct 30, 2014 21:48:32 GMT 1
Hi Susan. The only reason I can think is that it was originally published by Stabenfeldt (which is my copy) but then reprinted in the author's own publishing company (print and kindle) which is the edition you have - so it possibly could have been changed/edited a bit. But why I'm not sure. My copy is pretty short so it could just be that there are more words on each page in the e-book.
TBH I think editing some of the start of the book may have been a good idea as its quite slow to get going but once you get into it I think its a pretty good story. But I'll comment more later.
By the way I made a few notes of names, etc before I sent my copy off to haffy but of course have now lost them! And I can't remember any of the names except the horses! Could anyone fill me in on the girl's names and the old bloke's name? I only read it a week ago and I've forgotten them already - its shocking!!!
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Post by haffyfan on Oct 31, 2014 14:32:00 GMT 1
Sorry i only just got round to picking it up to start now. I'm only on page 2 but Kunuma you will hate it as much as I already do, i promise, if the author thinks it's perfectly okay to wean 4 month old foals, is anything to go by.
I will try and read it i promise but another minor irritation...the author mentions a horn and cinch but the illustrations show English tack. These publishing inaccuracies really bug me sometimes!
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Post by Claire on Oct 31, 2014 20:22:41 GMT 1
I can't remember reading the foals age. But I did speed read the first bit as it was a bit slow to get going.
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 1, 2014 12:07:22 GMT 1
Sorry i only just got round to picking it up to start now. I'm only on page 2 but Kunuma you will hate it as much as I already do, i promise, if the author thinks it's perfectly okay to wean 4 month old foals, is anything to go by. I will try and read it i promise but another minor irritation...the author mentions a horn and cinch but the illustrations show English tack. These publishing inaccuracies really bug me sometimes! Sigh, yes that's not sounding good so far!! Plus wacky illustrations drive me mad too, surely an artist would take pride in their reproduction of the contents of the book in a way that adds to the enjoyment of the book, and yet time and time again, they patently haven't read so much as the title, just drawn whatever they felt like - why?
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Post by Claire on Nov 1, 2014 13:14:14 GMT 1
Trouble is there aren't that many equine artists about now so most of the modern books are illustrated by people who know nowt about horses. The days of Anne Bullen, Peter Biegel, C. W. Anderson, et al are sadly long gone.
Has anyone but me finished the book so I can start discussing soon?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 19:43:15 GMT 1
another minor irritation...the author mentions a horn and cinch but the illustrations show English tack. These publishing inaccuracies really bug me sometimes! Me too! Can't stand wacky illustrations either....
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Post by Claire on Nov 1, 2014 23:04:30 GMT 1
I dont like bad illustrations in older books but I tend to ignore them in modern books as most of them don't have any anyway so I dont expect much! So it didnt bother me much in this case. I think they at least got the colours right on the cover tho..?
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Post by rallycairn on Nov 2, 2014 3:48:01 GMT 1
Haffy, I understood 4-6 months is pretty common for weaning. What age do you regard as appropriate? I did some quick googling and saw 4-6 months was still recommended, at least in the US ? Anyway, don't give up on Dorsey based on that one thing. I think she puts out some thoughtful stuff, her heroines are always very empathetic and sympathetic to horses, very focused on treating animals well and the human-animal bond rather than winning the big competition or what have you. I read Freedom's Echo, the second book in the trilogy, first but later did read Freedom. I think I liked the second better but enjoyed them both. I do not have the third but do intend to get it. I will get cracking on re-reading Freedom tomorrow.
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 2, 2014 11:31:52 GMT 1
I have read it now (well speed read it) and made some notes so i remember. Kunuma it will be on it's way Tuesday as i'm working all day tomorrow.
Rally - personally 6 months absolute minimum, the older the better really. Natural is best as mare will push the foal away herself, especially in the 'wild' when a new one arrives, the so common method of taking the mare away one day (or foal) is terrible imo. I have a very damaged pony who was weaned at 5 months (possibly earlier - not by us i might add) and I strongly believe it's at the heart of all his issues...they all come down to anxiety...when he's upset or anxious he lashes out angrily and under saddle he bucks/leaps etc making him very unpredictable. He's a sweetheart really and i adore him but most don't see it.
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 2, 2014 13:27:54 GMT 1
I have read it now (well speed read it) and made some notes so i remember. Kunuma it will be on it's way Tuesday as i'm working all day tomorrow. Rally - personally 6 months absolute minimum, the older the better really. Natural is best as mare will push the foal away herself, especially in the 'wild' when a new one arrives, the so common method of taking the mare away one day (or foal) is terrible imo. I have a very damaged pony who was weaned at 5 months (possibly earlier - not by us i might add) and I strongly believe it's at the heart of all his issues...they all come down to anxiety...when he's upset or anxious he lashes out angrily and under saddle he bucks/leaps etc making him very unpredictable. He's a sweetheart really and i adore him but most don't see it. Re weaning I agree with Haffy absolutely - I never weaned my foals by taking them away from their mothers - imagine - one day everything revolves around your loved baby, and the next day, your owner takes it away. I never bred a mare two years running, so foals were weaned naturally - if I wanted to get the mare fit, or dry her off completely, I would just put the foal next door but over a fence so they were still in contact. One one occasion when the new owner wanted to show the foal and wanted her at six months - we came to an arrangement in which she took mum too for a couple of months!!
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Post by Claire on Nov 2, 2014 22:50:04 GMT 1
Anyway, don't give up on Dorsey based on that one thing. I think she puts out some thoughtful stuff, her heroines are always very empathetic and sympathetic to horses, very focused on treating animals well and the human-animal bond rather than winning the big competition or what have you. I totally agree on these points Rally. I have read a lot of Angela Dorsey's books. In every book I've read the heroines are very sympathetic characters and you feel they really do care for horses. I feel that is the case in this book as well. In fact in some ways it is one of the main themes of the book. Although I also do agree with Haffy & Kunuma that in the UK 6 months minimum is the accepted age for weaning. As Angela Dorsey is Canadian and not British 4 months maybe the norm in her country. I certainly don't see her as a person who would condone anything deliberately cruel to a horse or indeed a human. Her books are full of compassion for both. Anyway good to see we are having a bit of discussion/controversy already! I'll give it a couple more days before I make any more detailed comments/analysis of the book to give people time to catch up.
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Post by susanb on Nov 4, 2014 12:15:27 GMT 1
Finished!
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Post by darkhorse on Nov 5, 2014 19:31:32 GMT 1
I've finished too. I read the kindle version.
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 5, 2014 22:24:48 GMT 1
Is the kindle sample the first chapter of the book? If it starts as it does in the sample then it has been condensed as the foal reference was prior to this, the opening in the book was her last day at the stables.
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 5, 2014 22:25:13 GMT 1
Sorry not sample, the look inside I mean.
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Post by Claire on Nov 5, 2014 22:55:25 GMT 1
Thats interesting haffy. I had a look and it doe have a link with 'beginning' on but I couldn't get the link to work. But scrolling thru the first bit of text you come to is the bit where she is driving to the new home so it does look like thats the start for the kindle version. Susan or darkhorse will be able to confirm where their's start. Actually if it has been revised/edited I pretty much agree with it because I thought the bits before they moved were a bit superfluous to the story.
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Post by Claire on Nov 6, 2014 17:39:53 GMT 1
Well as a few people have read the book now I thought I'd start the ball rolling with some discussion.
On the whole I enjoyed the book and though it was a good read. As I said earlier it was very slow to start and I felt most of the part which was focused on Jani's old stable and the horses there could have been missed out. In fact it looks like the kindle version of the book may have edited out this section. (Waiting for confirmation from Susan or Darkhorse who read the kindle version)
I thought it worked well as a ghost story. It built up the tension well with hints of the haunting, then Jani sensing a presence before she finally sees the ghost. The ghost horse is quite menacing at first especially when you consider how powerful a horse can be. There is also, as with all good ghost stories, a little bit of a mystery behind the haunting, which the girls find out about when they question Mr. Hansen. He really is the most frightening figure in the book, a truly horrible person.
But the book is not just a simple ghost story. As with most of Dorsey's books she explores emotions and moral issues. For me, there are two main themes in this story. Both are two do with freedom. One is that it is wrong to deny anyone their freedom. I like the way that Jani is tempted to keep Freedom and not let her go. It gives her and the reader some insight into Mr. Hansen's behaviour. But unlike him, Jani realises quickly that it is wrong to imprison anyone, either physically or by the force of your will.
The other theme is about freeing yourself from hate and forgiving people. As soon as the ghost horse stops hating all humanity and learns to love Jani, she becomes free. The girls learn to forgive Mr. Hansen and help him realise that it is his hatred of both the horse and himself that have marred his life and turned him into the horrible friendless man he is.
Another thing I like is that the book is concerned mainly with the relationship between Jani and the two horses. I prefer books like this to those which are concerned more about winning and having a well bred horse as so many of these modern stories are. The two horses are three dimensional with their own characters.
I have a couple of small gripes but nothing serious and I'll leave it to others to maybe point them out!
One thing I found strange though was the conception of the foal. Was Keeta impregnated by the Welsh stally and the spirit of Freedom somehow got into the foal. Or was it some sort of immaculate conception which strikes me as being a bit odd. If Freedom had been a stallion it could have been more understandable! I'd be interested to hear what other people think about this.
A few discussion points for anyone who is wondering what to say about the book:
As it's a Halloween story - does everyone think it worked as a ghost story? Also what are your impressions of the characters, the themes as I saw them (agree or disagree?) and any other high and low points of the book.
And don't forget to vote everyone. I voted very good.
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 6, 2014 18:49:45 GMT 1
Great points/mini review Claire.
Like you i also found it a bit slow to start and the last day stuff was pretty insignificant to the plot, must admit this is the only chapter i didn't speed read though. I didn't give it enough credit to read properly and hadn't picked up on the emotional and moral stuff if i'm honest. I just disliked it from the off and struggled with it because of this so mainly my notes were gripes i'm afraid. I must add at this point, i like fantasy but i have never liked ghost stories.
Obviously the foal thing was the first issue, followed by the unfortunate bad illustrations, if the first chapter is missing on kindle this isn't an issue as i don't think there were any more indicators in the story than Jani rode western.
I noticed a couple of times it jumped from being told as the 1st person to third in same paragraph - next sentence on infact at least once. This just spoiled the flow a little and just wasn't necessary.
The real biggy is the tangible ghost - Jani was able to touch it, it also kicked and marked the mare. I know this is subjective but i always thought ghosts were not tangible/able to 'touch' our world. As for the immaculate conception (as that was how it struck me too) well that was just the icing on the cake and sealed the death warrant for myself. I was also interested in how Jani's mare (Keeta?) was not scared of ghost Freedom as again i've always been of the understanding animals with their very acute senses, are aware and nervous of the paranormal, whereas Keeta was positively embracing it.
I thought Mr Hanson was a real scarey pony book character, his tale was pretty shocking and i can see, now Claire has kindly pointed it out, it was there for moral purposes but it was still pretty horrific.
Another biggy was the girls digging up the bones, surely she would still be decomposing...can young girls really stomach this - I couldn't! Also her parents never noticed or checked what they were up to and why there was a massive hole in the old barn, not to mention those piles of earth had to go somewhere...really!? By the same effect, the fire, they weren't concerned the girls had been trapped in a burning building, not angry they had candles in a hay barn...and the horse just conveniently knocked that candle over didn't she.
Final gripe, in the same vein as the foal thing, Jani was still riding Keeta very late in her pregnancy. If she hadn't known i'd be fine with it, it happens but she did know so it was wrong. I also got angry when she left her tied up in the garden and went into the friends house for ages at the start. Must remind myself sometimes it's not real, just a story.
Sorry just didn't like it at all, can't think of any positives right now, apart from it was short.
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 6, 2014 19:31:11 GMT 1
Just got it today, but think from reading what Haffy just said that there may be a bit in it which is a definite no no for me - so will take it to bed tonight with some trepidation, watch this space tomorrow! To be fair this time of year always puts me in a bad mood anyway
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Post by Claire on Nov 6, 2014 20:00:44 GMT 1
Lol haffy I think it was probably a given you wouldn't like it if I did! I seem to remember you read another Angela Dorsey book and didnt like it either. Good points tho, covered some of my gripes, ie the fire thing and the parents not noticing everything that was going on. To be fair they were mega busy starting up a new business but they still would have been more shocked about the fire than they were I think.
How long was it since Freedom died and the start of the story? I thought it was quite a few years so she would a skeleton. I agree tho the girls didnt really seem too fazed by it, even making jokes!
For me the ghost being tangible was not a problem. I've read loads of ghost stories (I like them!) and in some they are just spirits in others they have a physical presence. I don't think there is a particular rule and as I have never seen a ghost I just dont know what they are like. But its an interesting point haffy and one I never would have even thought about. It was my feeling that Keeta liked the ghost mare because she was another horse and so not malevalent to Keeta, only to humans.
One last point - I eventually decided on this book for a Halloween read because there were some gruesome/scary bits in it and it pulled no punches. A lot of horsy ghost stories have kindly ghosts and are quite gentle which is nice if you are in the mood for that sort of thing. but I think a real ghost story for Halloween should be a bit dark. This is also what I like about Dorsey as a writer she is not afraid to tackle some unpleasant and weighty issues. Howvever I can see this very thing putting off some people.
Well I like it when we do books where not everyone is in agreement. I have a feeling kunuma won't like it either lol. Glad someone else liked it but me tho!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 7:34:42 GMT 1
Just got it today, but think from reading To be fair this time of year always puts me in a bad mood anyway Ditto!!
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Post by susanb on Nov 7, 2014 12:29:35 GMT 1
Surprisingly, (as we don't often like the same books!), I'm with Haffy here....didn't do it for me at all, and yes, the Phantom Foal was the cherry on top.
Will write more later, rushing out now.....a note on the kindle text though, it starts when they're in car heading to new home and had been "driving forever"
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 7, 2014 15:02:02 GMT 1
Oh dear, another one to join the 'I don't like this book' club started by Haffy!! I just spent a couple of hours in torrential rain trying to think up a nice thing to say about it - all I came up with was that unlike most of the modern pony books I have read recently, it wasn't just a copy of an older story. Although the last but one I read was a collection of short stories which I actually thought were rather unusual and a good idea, but the grammar police would have locked the author up and thrown away the key!!! But, I digress, back to the book! Really bad start - not only does the poor foal get taken from it's mother at four months but then shut in a stable on his own - however apparently this is alright because he gets let out in a paddock now and again! I grew up with the likes of the PT's so am used to books giving the correct standard of care along with the story - this book angered me by giving the idea that treating a foal like this was in any way acceptable. However, I ploughed on - to find we had a heroine who was crying her eyes out because she had moved to a place with land and stables and could have her pony at home with her - apparently she preferred her schoolfriends to the pony!! Since my dream is to get my pony out of livery and have her at home with me, 0 out of 10 for said heroine! Ploughing on yet again, we then reached the part Haffy mentioned that I was dreading, the whole digging up the bones part was upsetting and basically unreadable as far as I was concerned at this point I was going to throw the book out of the window, luckily I remembered in time that I can't open the window where I sleep and it wasn't my book! Plus don't even get me started on a horse ghost seemingly being 'punished' for not forgiving those who killed her! Interesting choice for a book read - looking at the range of ratings!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 7, 2014 17:51:44 GMT 1
<abbr>lol Just read that Claire said I wouldn't like it, how well she knows me!! </abbr>
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Post by haffyfan on Nov 7, 2014 20:31:18 GMT 1
Lol haffy I think it was probably a given you wouldn't like it if I did! I seem to remember you read another Angela Dorsey book and didnt like it either. I'd almost managed to blot it out! It was abandoned and come to think of it i think there was a whole barn full of bones in that one... Bit of a theme here?
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Post by susanb on Nov 7, 2014 21:02:30 GMT 1
Yes! Frankly, the whole mandatory "forgiveness" thing, which has become such a modern craze, that forms the core of this book grated on me most of all. The "you have to forgive to move on and heal" bit. Well, no actually, you don't. You can just move on and heal. And some things don't deserve forgiveness.....torturing and murdering a horse would definitely make my list.
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