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Post by trixiepony on Apr 14, 2014 23:51:49 GMT 1
Watt I did was slide ech page from the page on to my computer then I put it in iPhotos I can resize and rearage the pages there I have mybe 40% dun so thanks but I should be fine this whay Claire. I have injoyed the bit I have read so fare, I think the drawings arn't my stile but Thay fit the story.
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Post by trixiepony on Apr 16, 2014 4:22:37 GMT 1
I'm up too chapter 6 and liking the story so fare.
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Post by Darkhorse1 on Apr 16, 2014 15:44:46 GMT 1
I didn't have any trouble with the downloads, but my OH had already installed the drop box thingy on the computer so it went straight to that.
Just finished it and I'm a bit shocked at the scene at the show and not sure about the ending. I'll wait until some others have read before commenting further.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 18:26:13 GMT 1
*spoiler alert*
Yes that show scene was just awful! And his treatment of Rock in general was pretty disgusting. The ending was a bit twee really. He suddenly became a good boy just like that. He would have been a great candidate for that awful programme recently about the racehorses and problem kids.
Still don't know how to vote. Teetering between good and very good.
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Post by Claire on Apr 16, 2014 19:24:45 GMT 1
Well as 3 of us have finished it I think we could maybe start the dicussion and the others can join in later. If you have queries relating to the downloads please PM me direct.
*SPOILERS ALERT*
POSSIBLE DISCUSSION POINTS
I think the main discussion points centre around the character of Chris and for me I have these questions (which you are free to answer or ignore!)
*Chris is described as charming. Did anyone find him so, or feel that he had any redeeming features? Did you feel sorry for him at all?
*Did you find him a believable character?
*I think that Gillian Baxter was trying to portray him as someone with unpleasant character traits who could be redeemed, but do you think she went too far with the horrible show scene? Do you think he deserved to be given a second chance after that?
*Leading on from that - what did you think of the ending?
For me, I never found Chris charming at all. Altho several people in the book said he was, there was no direct evidence. I'm not saying he was totally without good points, he did help Sharon and her mother quite a lot with the market garden and he saved the girl who bolted, etc, courageously. (Tho of course he caused the thing in the first place) But I didnt feel there was anything about him to make Sharon like him. I did feel sorry for him as he obviously had terrible parents who let him run wild.
I actually found him a very well rounded and believable character. But I do think that GB should have given him some more pleasant characteristics and I think she made the show incident just too nasty to forgive. I dont think Sharon could have forgiven him for that. And I think it was just too bad to be rewarded the way he was by everything being OK and him even getting a job as an apprentice. I can't help comparing it to a similar incident in Six Ponies where John Manners loses his temper and whips his pony and the Major comes along and gives him a lecture. That was about the right level of violence for a children's story. And I think the ending would have worked better if the temper tantrum had been along those lines. On the other hand I felt that Chris' horror afterwards of what he had done was realistic.
I do wonder how else GB could have ended it tho - any ideas?
It was very well written, the plot kept you interested all the way, and it was courageous of GB to take on a controversial subject, but I felt what she did didnt quite work out. I did vote very good.
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Post by trixiepony on Apr 17, 2014 1:41:03 GMT 1
I can't vote on my phone but I will latter when I'm on my computer. I'm with you in most off what you said Claire, Chris is annoying, I remember smiler stupid show offs off boys at that age so too me he was a belevabal fellow. I must admit to exspeting a worse out come for poor Sweet Rock her dieing in the tangle off rops or with complacashions after. I gess getting the apretashipe isn't all roses for him he hats work and you start off doing all the worse jobs and have to work your way up, will be tuff on him after being so free before.
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Post by brumby on Apr 17, 2014 4:31:45 GMT 1
This will be a great book for discussion and I really believe it will divide people. I absolutely love Gillian Baxter as an author and after reading most of her books in the last few weeks she is up there with my favourites.
Now to Sweet Rock, firstly , hate the cover, but quite liked the illustrations, they have a certain charm and I think they suited Rock, although she didn't look like a flea bitten grey more like a dappled grey, guess its difficult to do flea bitten especially when the illustrations are a bit scribbly anyway.
Ok here goes (please don't throw things at me!) I liked Chris, to me he came across exactly how Sharon saw him. A person who was rotten to the core would not have helped with the planting and he did build Mrs King her extra cold frames. I thought he was quite kind to Sharon. I did think he could have been charming, and yes I did feel sorry for him, his father obviously had quite an influence on him, as Chris mentioned more than once what would his dad say if Chris has a regular job. I found Chris' toughness was just bravado, he was a much more gentler character at the start of the story and I wondered what he had been through when they went away.
Claire I found him absolutely believable, I also found what happened at the end believable. Yes the incident with Sweet Rock was horrific and so graphic, but it had to be that bad for Chris to to hit rock bottom and then change his ways. I used to teach in a rough area and some of those boys had a heart of gold under the rough exterior.
I also liked the character of Sharon, I think she was a kind sensitive girl who was torn between Chris' rough treatment of Rock (early part of book) and his charm. She was a lonely girl that the others teased because she rode Rebecca that delightful little donkey. Chris was her friend and I felt he obviously cared for her, I think he also craved the security and predictability of Sharon's life, but didn't want to admit it. Sharon was non judgemental (wish I could be more like that) and accepted Chris for who he was.
I think the ending was the only way to go, would seeing Chris punished made it any better? no I think he probably punished himself enough.
There was one character that I didn't really go for and that was Carol, I suppose she helped Sharon but she had some strange ideas: " rearing is a vicious dangerous trick" and "Carols definition of a dangerous rearer , one who rears in stubbornness and refusal to go forward" , hardly describes Rock, a pony that has been ridden roughly with no proper schooling.
Gillian Baxter was indeed brave to write this story and i think she did a great job.
Rock has also become one of my favourite ponies.
I'm going to give it very good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 13:45:06 GMT 1
lol rally we disagree on nearly everything The only thing we have agreed on is that we like Gillian Baxter and voted Very Good which I've just done. There is nothing I liked about Chris at all. To my mind he will use his so called charm throughout life to get just what he wants. look how he wrapped Sharon around his little finger. And Sharon is just wet. I wouldn't have been friends with him that's for sure! Why didn't she really say or do something about his terrible treatment of Rock, and I don't just mean the show beating, instead of going along with everything he did? She obviously hated the way he treated the pony but still she liked being around him. Nope didn't like her at all. I thought Carol was O.K. and I agree it is well written, nothing boring about this book. The only thing I didn't like, as I said earlier, is the ending. I agree he is almost rewarded with getting the apprenticeship. Would have been interesting to read a follow up and see just what did happen to Chris in his new job! I'll slink off now and avoid the rotten tomatoes being hurled at me......
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Post by Claire on Apr 17, 2014 14:25:46 GMT 1
Lol love the way the discussion is going. Its great to have books that divide opionion. Fantastic post brumby, you really put a lot of thought into it and you almost have me liking Chris! Its interesting that he came across that way to you and not Rosie or myself, and I think that WAS the way GB was trying to portray him.
I really liked Sharon, who was very kind and caring. I didnt think she was completely wet but I dont think I could have forgiven someone if I'd seen them treat an animal the way he did Rock.
I wasn't too keen on Carol either. Thought she was a bit stuffy. Might be wrong but didnt she initially say that Rock's rearing wasn't out of malice and so could be cured, and then later turned around and said it was incurable?
How did you think the ending should have gone Rosie - any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:04:38 GMT 1
I could see Chris going downhill rapidly, getting in with the wrong crowd and thoroughly nasty with it. Maybe Sharon would then have seen him for what he really was and dumped him!
Agree with Rally that Rock was a lovely pony. She should have been mine! LOL
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Post by Claire on Apr 17, 2014 19:39:38 GMT 1
Lol Rosie how did you come up with such a happy ending? Glad GB didnt make Rock get seriously hurt or die to increase the impact of the situation (as per DPT in Riding with the Lyntons). Tho I think something like that might actually have made Chris turn over a new leaf and stay that way. But it would have been very depressing. I agree I liked Rock, and I also like Rebecca the donkey. She sounded lovely.
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Post by rallycairn on Apr 17, 2014 21:56:00 GMT 1
Although I'm more than happy to be associated with the delightful and articulate brumby, I haven't had a chance to read the book yet!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 6:43:24 GMT 1
Apologies for mixing you both up Brumby and Rally.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 6:46:18 GMT 1
Yes she sounds like a well behaved Donkey.
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Post by brumby on Apr 24, 2014 23:11:41 GMT 1
Where are all the other readers of Sweet Rock? I thought we started with a great discussion but Easter must have been a diversion. Would love to know what others think about this book? I'm quite happy for people to totally disagree with my opinions on the book
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Post by Darkhorse1 on Apr 25, 2014 14:43:19 GMT 1
I really enjoyed the book. I thought it was very original and agree that the author was brave to tackle such an emotive subject. Another thing I liked was that it wasn't all black and white. In a less original story Chris would have been the villain, Sharon the heroine who rescued Sweet Rock from him. This was a completely different take on that familiar pony book plot. Chris did have some good qualities and although I didn't really like him that much I could see how he could have been if he had had a better childhood. So although I did find the show incident shocking I thought it was the right sort of ending and gave him another chance to prove he was a worthwhile person. I would vote very good if I can ever get to log in!
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Post by Claire on Apr 25, 2014 15:23:25 GMT 1
Well brumby it might be Easter but I think some people have been having trouble accessing the scans. If anyone is still having probs please PM me.
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Post by brumby on Apr 25, 2014 22:18:22 GMT 1
Hope they are able to sort out the technical issues as its certainly a book worth reading. It has certainly been one of those books that has really stayed with me and made me think.
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Post by Darkhorse1 on Apr 25, 2014 22:31:33 GMT 1
I agree Brumby it is certainly worth reading and will make you think even if you don't particularly like it. Its a shame it's so hard to find.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 10:02:30 GMT 1
I'm in total agreement as well. A gripping read whether you like it or not.
Darkhorse it's such a shame you can't log in. Stupid pooboards! Can you create a new account?
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Post by fizz on Apr 27, 2014 11:35:59 GMT 1
I can't seem to change the alignment of the pages....and me teaching computers as well!
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Post by Claire on Apr 27, 2014 15:24:27 GMT 1
I can't seem to change the alignment of the pages....and me teaching computers as well! Did you get the scan from the link or the ones I emailed fizz? Are you finding it hard to rotate them, as kunuma is too. Its irritating as it used to be simple to send them in emails til they change everything.
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Post by fizz on Apr 27, 2014 21:04:58 GMT 1
The scan from the link. I began to convert it into a Zip but it was taking ages and I stopped it. Is it easier to rotate them from the Zip than on the scan? there isn't a rotate icon that I can see. I am being trained to take over ICT classes as the Art Department was closed down. This is a bit beyond my knowledge, my mentor may know though, but I expect she will think it is a bit weird wanting to read a teen novel! I would really like to read this one as I have enjoyed all the Gillian Baxter's I have read.
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Post by kunuma on Apr 27, 2014 22:33:39 GMT 1
I can't seem to change the alignment of the pages....and me teaching computers as well! You mean it's not just me!! I've managed to download them and everything, just can't get them the right way up!!
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Post by Claire on Apr 27, 2014 22:55:58 GMT 1
Not sure why you two are having trouble rotating the pics. I tried sending the zip files back to myself on my other email address, downloaded them/unzipped with no probs and then opened them in windows picture viewer where I could rotate them. Fizz trying downloading the zip files again, when they are extracted there will be 2 folders with each page as a jpeg file which you should be able to open and rotate in windows pic viewer. Of course kunuma has to be different as the rotate facility seems to have disabled itself on hers!
If you are still having probs I can rotate the pages myself and then send the whole kit and kaboodle to you two again!
BTW Fizz you may want to try winrar (has a permanent free trial period) rather than winzip, I find its faster and opens more types of file.
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Post by fizz on Apr 28, 2014 18:30:59 GMT 1
I managed to convert it in the end and it downloaded fine. I am enjoying it so far. It reads very differently to all the other GB's I've read. Is that because they are abridged in Green Dragon? Is the original Ribbons & Rings this detailed? I would love to read the originals of her books, especially Ribbons & Rings. Does any one have it?
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Post by fizz on Apr 29, 2014 10:33:11 GMT 1
I have finished reading it and I will post a review on here later. however first want to comment on the illustrations. I have seen that illustrator before somewhere in another pony book. They are very of their time, the illustrator has a good sense of composition, mark making and line but he/she can't draw horses! The picture of the "final show" is totally confusing visually. The images are too light hearted, they would be suitable in a picture book for young children or a comedy themed book but not the serious dramatic content in this one. Gillian Baxter doesn't seem to have had the best illustrators.
Does any one else think that GB must have seen a horse fall at a show in this way? A similar scene occurs in other books by her.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2014 12:11:02 GMT 1
I totally agree about the illustrations Fizz. And they weren't always accurate to the story either.
I would guess GB had seen a fall like that.
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Post by Claire on Apr 30, 2014 1:18:47 GMT 1
Fizz, glad you managed to get the files open after all.
The illustrations look familiar to me too - sure I've seen the same work somewhere but where I couldn't say. I agree Fizz that GB didnt have great illustrators on the whole. Horses and Heather is the best one with Sheila Rose and Elisabeth Grant did a few which are quite nice, the others not so much. Some didnt even have illustrations at all! .
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Post by fizz on Apr 30, 2014 12:58:10 GMT 1
My first impressions of the book is how different it seemed from the other Gillian Baxter's I have read. I am wondering why this is? Is it due to being a later book? I have only read the earlier ones, latest being the 1963, The Perfect Horse, or is it that the earlier ones (Green Dragon) have been heavily abridged? There is a post on Jane Badger's forum about this. Has anyone here read both editions of the earlier books? I remember some classic bits of dialogue in Ribbons and Rings that might have been from abridged text: "...she guessed that she was missing more than horses and dairy cattle..." being one and there wasn't a lot of character development, certainly compared to Sweet Rock.
Back to Sweet Rock.... I enjoyed it, though I did read it with a sense of dread, Gillian Baxter being the equine serial killer amongst the pony book writers (and not adverse for adding the odd human as well and/or some terrible injury). I enjoyed the descriptive prose and the detail, I love detailed books, especially about horses. The characterisation of the Mother and Daughter was good and I enjoyed the backdrop of the market garden and the way this, by the change of seasons and plants marked the passage of time in the story.
Chris is well developed and I think he does come over has having forgivable charm. I think his character type has dated somewhat and we must try to read this book in almost a historical context. It was the beginning of the age of the independent rebellious teenager, though then one left school at fifteen and a boy might be working as a manual labourer long before he was allowed to vote (at twenty-one then I think). Now we would regard both the protagonists as children, when then they were considered young adults. Different to Baxter's earlier books, the romance is very downplayed, Sharon has more of a friendship with him, but this probably is showing some movement towards love by the end of the book.There is also nothing about fashion or film stars or lipstick and femininity unlike the earlier ones.
The core of the book is true to the pattern of many of the postwar pony books....girl who doesn't have a lot of experience gets difficult pony, with help or book somehow turns it rapidly into a winner. What makes it different and more interesting is the spikiness of the events...improving pony, winning, return of Chris, abuse, less winning, crisis incident.
The events at the show were building and it you have read any of GB's earlier books you would have been expecting something unpleasant. GB combines two events from earlier books in this: The Aunt's abuse of Shelta in Jump to the Stars and the demise of Vixen in Ribbons and Rings. Although there has been a build up to this event, we are still shocked at the severity, as we have been shown, in earlier parts of the book, Chris's love of his pony and the care he has given her. I think his reaction to what happens, his shock and the fact he walks away, is accurate. At that point he cannot face what he thinks is the inevitable, that he has through his temper killed his pony.
The end was a bit too quick and resolved, like they all walk off into the sunset holding hands. A sequel would have been good; a racing apprenticeship would either have killed or cured Chris, he would not have been allowed to treat an animal in that way in a racing stable, nor smoke about the place; also his pay would have been low, very low then.
Thanks Claire for sending me it.
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