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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 18:41:46 GMT 1
I'm still talking to you Kunuma, and titntin I feel an outcast because I hate the Jinny books
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Post by Claire on Feb 13, 2013 18:55:08 GMT 1
The book did get off on the wrong foot with me because one of my biggest rants is the past and certainly present, overbreeding of horses! The thought of a so called breeder deliberately breeding from a mare with such appalling problems just sent my blood pressure through the roof. I mean; want to breed faster horses, then mate horses with speed in their bloodlines - want to breed horses with sight problems - then mate horses with no eyes!! Seriously, do you think that was based on fact?? (No, on second thoughts - I don't want to know!) Even if you didn't care about the genetic implications, what about the psychological stress on the foaling mare (they did at least mention that part to KMP's credit) But surely that was the point KMP was trying to make - that Declan was feckless and stupid in doing this. He was doing it cos of the speed in her bloodlines and being completely selfish. KMP wanted to show the selfish side of racing as well as portraying Declan (and later Myra) as self absorbed human beings and terrible parents in order to make us feel more sympthetic to Tessa (altho in your case it didnt work kunuma lol) I too (and I think a couple of other people on here also have said the same) was angry at the way she treated Buffoon when he first appeared and before she knew he was Shiner's son, but I think the point of the story was to show that although she initially only liked him because of Shiner, through him (and some of the human characters) she learned to love less selfishly - tho not entirely as I still think someone who loved a horse wouldnt put him thru the operation or in the extremely dangerous National. Anyway at least you havent got haffy on your case - she likened me to monkey throwing its own faeces when I dared criticise Prince Among Ponies ;D ;D ;D I like having different opinions - its a bit boring when everyone just sings a books praises
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Post by kunuma on Feb 14, 2013 14:50:51 GMT 1
Noooo, you can't criticise P among P - Adonis was, not only my first idol, but I'm sure the reason I have had a passion for grey Arab stallions all my life! One thing I had to go back and reread the BB book for was the whole tenant thing - of course back then tenants DID have rights, so you could afford to annoy/offend your landlord - you can't now! Another thing that confuses me is the title - to whom does it refer?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 15:10:47 GMT 1
I'm not sure on this one either. Is it a play on words with Black Beauty? Buffoon wasn't a beauty in looks though was he
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Post by Claire on Feb 14, 2013 21:54:02 GMT 1
I agree I always thought the title was a bit odd and not the nicest one in the world either. I would think definitely a play on black beauty possibly thought up by some editorial stiff who thought it might make the book sell better.
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Post by rallycairn on Feb 15, 2013 3:37:35 GMT 1
Ok, I totally overlooked the obvious and thought it was an allusion to the Gerard Manley Hopkins poem, Pied Beauty. About finding "other" kinds of things beautiful, appreciating things that might not normally be valued? "All things counter, original, spare, strange; " I'm probably just being ridiculous and it is, of course, Black Beauty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 12:25:31 GMT 1
That's interesting Rallycairn, I'd not read that poem so did a quick google.
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Post by rallycairn on Feb 15, 2013 13:21:16 GMT 1
It's a great poem, isn't it? Hope you liked it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 13:56:10 GMT 1
I did
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Post by tintin on Feb 15, 2013 21:06:43 GMT 1
I did n't take to this book for a variety of reasons, though it was very original and well written. It is much more compelling after the stabbing and I had to finish it.
The beginning was quite shocking with the eyeless foal though it did really make you think "what would I do". - "Go with what the Vet says" was both me nd my Dad's thought though it was really hard to think what would be most humane. My Dad could remeber blind heavy horses, but they were elderly and had gone blind with age and so were experienced also usually paired in harness with a horse that could see.
Once I had got used to the idea of the eyeless horse I was hoping to be interested to read about the problems of care etc and was quite touched by the relationship with the young Tessa, however, we were soom wrenched out of that.
The grim bits were really grim. I felt the intense feeling of alienation and being trapped seemed to be expressions of the writer's own anger. The intenseness of the writing pushed me to give it "good" rather than "average"
There are alot of twists in this book and you read on with trepidation wondering what disaster will be next. I knew something bad would happen with Tom as soon as he appeared, mercifully it was not messing round with Tessa's head or making use of her as I feared or I might have put the book down in disgust, his accident was almost a relief.
Everything speeded up a bit much near the end. The end was a bit too much, though fun and a reward after all the misery, but I would have been happier if they had just been able to have a nice relaxed life with Buffoon after his eyes were cured. Even though it was a book I was thinking "please don't take such risks with such a comparatively elderly gentleman's heart" during the Grand National bits.nd could easily see the poor horse dropping dead. And Buffoon WAS a gentleman of a horse, but all through his story I could n't help thinking of him as an accident waiting to happen and feeling really sorry for him, it was lucky he only broke some woman's leg and not their neck.
I did feel sorry for Myra. Her first husband was amiable (most of the time), but useless and her second useful, but horribly malign. I could imagine her being third time lucky as she seems the sort of a lady men could easily fall in love with if she wanted them to, however, it was too quick. I do think this may have been because KM Peyton had a certain number of pages allowed by her editor, the book did increase a hell of a lot in pace in its latter bits.
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Post by fizz on Feb 16, 2013 11:01:25 GMT 1
Well that makes too outcasts Rosie as I don't like the Jinny books either. I haven't read A Dream of Fair Horses?but I have read a lot of her otherbooks & I think Patricia Lietch is seriously overrated!
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Post by Claire on Feb 16, 2013 13:44:38 GMT 1
I was thinking "please don't take such risks with such a comparatively elderly gentleman's heart" during the Grand National bits.. I agree with this. If it was me I'd have been happy just to have got Buffoon back and not made him race again. Also I don't know why KMP made him so old - the same plot line could have happened with him being 12 and it would have been more realistic running him at that age.
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Post by Claire on Feb 16, 2013 13:46:38 GMT 1
I think Patricia Lietch is seriously overrated! Aghhh....sacrilige!!! ;D Actually there are quite a lot of people don't like the Jinn books it seems to be a love or hate series.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 19:32:13 GMT 1
I haven't either, but I did quite like Rebel Pony. That rare one of hers, Rosettes for Royal, I thought a bit dull. Interesting
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 17, 2013 16:39:50 GMT 1
I love Patricia Leitch and Jinny but I also admit Rosettes for Royal is not one of her best
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Post by haffyfan on Feb 19, 2013 19:40:11 GMT 1
Never got around to re-reading Blind Beauty...oops...and about to go OT.
Another here who doesn't exactly get the patricia Leitch thing all the time. Some of her books are totally amazing, she does fantasy very well indeed and as an adult re-reading Jinny i appreciated this far more than as a child. As a child Jinny was never my favourite and the ones i liked most were Devil To Ride and the showjumping one where she nearly looses Shantih. I also had more appreciation for Fields of praise as an adult too, as a child it bored me and i don't think i ever properly read it. My favourites are Black loch, Treasure to the East and Jump To the Top. Non of the others really did it for me.
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Post by Claire on Feb 19, 2013 20:01:07 GMT 1
Tut tut we're getting off topic a bit (she says with moderator hat on ) Actually I think Patricia Leitch would be an excellent choice for a future author of the month as she has written a lot of books in a number of different styles, as well as being an author who seems to invoke a lot of different reactions in people. Can't believe you havent read Blind Beauty haffy, I'm sure you'll enjoy it as you liked Darkling, her other racing one with a female teen lead.
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Post by rallycairn on Feb 19, 2013 22:17:04 GMT 1
Maybe I should have brought this up on Valentine's Day, but how about Tessa's and Tom's relationship? Are they convincing as a couple?
Tom was good to her right from the beginning, such as coming to visit her after she fractures her wrist in her very first race, and checking in with her periodically even though they really didn't have any basis for a real friendship at that point. When he first meets her he sees her (correctly) as a little girl, so it's a little bit hard to see where his kindness comes from, unless he's just that great a guy! Or Tessa is that magnetic -- and obviously, he IS drawn by her ferocity and force of will, and the young woman she develops into is obviously a compelling person indeed. But Tom really was a big supporter of Tessa right from the beginning, and while I liked it I'm not sure it's entirely plausible, they way he'd just drop by to see her in her caravan, keep tabs on her, etc. Maybe I'm just being picky.
Also, and not that it's important, but I think, although her appearance is never really described, that Tessa must be quite attractive physically, in addition to having the strong, magnetic personality. I like that while she isn't described by Peyton as beautiful (except perhaps at her mother's and Peter's party near the end), we get the sense of her attractiveness from Tom's reactions, and even Greevey's compliments and Wisbey's clumsy come-ons. Polished writing on Peyton's part to not just say, "Tessa grew into an attractive Irish spitfire, with flaming hair and porcelain skin" or some such nonsense.
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Post by Claire on Feb 19, 2013 22:39:18 GMT 1
Hmm I'll have to have a think about the relationship and maybe re-read the early parts of their friendship which I can't recall fully. As 2 adults I thought the relationship was realistic. Tom obviously has fallen for her but decides that she is perhaps not ready for a relationship which is why he keeps his distance (there are long periods when he doesn't visit her at all for example) As a good looking successful jockey he probably has to beat off girls with sticks so Tessa's seeming indifference is probably a factor in attracting him.
Tessa's feelings for Tom are completely different to those of most of KMP's heroines who usually love their man from afar before finally getting him (well some don't get their man at all) whereas Tessa doesnt even understand what she feels.
I get the image of Tessa as perhaps not classically beautiful but striking and with an attraction which is partly due to her personality and untouchability - which I think sparks off the hunting instinct in the men she meets!
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Post by tintin on Feb 19, 2013 23:53:07 GMT 1
As a bloke (or possibly I don't have that excuse and am just obtuse in a non gender specific way) I did n't really see the interest as odd. I saw it mainly as a professional friendship - a desire to guide someone who had a lot of potential, but also a lot of potential to make bad mistakes. Later, and this was more due to the generally grim tone of the book, I thought he was going to use and abuse her - well I correctly identified something bad was going to happen involving him, but fortunately completely wrongly as to what it was.
The female head lad that fancied Jimmy - I could n't see that at all until she hinted at it when she left.
Tessa's looks? - I saw her as attractive in a slight, but muscley, taught tom boy type of way like a gymnast. Sort of Jamie Lee Curtis in "Blue Steel", but smaller - she is after all a jockey
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 8:01:18 GMT 1
I agree with these two points. I thought the relationship worked well.
In my head I see Tessa as a bit waif-like, pretty with an inner strength which Tom is attracted to.
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Post by rallycairn on Feb 26, 2013 23:24:35 GMT 1
Just can't finish out the month without bringing up one more thing.
Despite the many hardships of the book, for Tessa, for Buffoon, for Tom -- still overall I don't find this book is quite as existential angst-y as many of Peyton's other books, like The Beethoven Medal, say, or A Pattern of Roses, or Snowfall.
But Peyton does get in some existential questioning, such as this lovely passage: "The river flowed strongly in the bottom of the valley, trailing its green weeds, smelling of nature untouched, rank and ambrosial, secret, elemental. Tessa stayed there for some time, listening to it, unceasing, stroking her difficult thoughts. Whoever, whatever, died, nothing stopped the spring's coming, the spring rising. It just went on. One was of no consequence in the universe. Did anything matter at all?"
That type of questioning is what drew me to Peyton the first time I read her (Flambards) and continues to draw me to read and re-read her works. Like with Fly-by-Night -- Peyton can capture how somehow having a horse can MATTER so much to a person, how it can be so important to someone in coping with the world and learning who s/he is. She captures so well for me how, to certain personalities, things MATTER so much, or those people (such as myself) WANT things to matter, but sometimes can't help but wonder and worry whether anything matters at all.
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