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Post by kunuma on May 8, 2011 23:14:57 GMT 1
OK, so as not to annoy our esteemed moderator any more than absolutely necessary! ;D ;D Personally I can't see how the Americans can say that any colour can be a breed. For a start it can't breed true, and a breed is not accepted until it breeds true to form. You can produce a chestnut from two palominos, so what breed is that if the parents are called palomino breed? You can mate a palomino to a bay and get a bay, which will never produce a pally - it isn't half a palomino in the same way an Arab mated to a Dartmoor produces a half Arab. I've had my rant - over to everyone else now for their opinions!!
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Post by Claire on May 9, 2011 0:02:23 GMT 1
The poll should have a both option Even according to the American horse people it is only a c olour breed, as it can't genetically breed true. I think breed is used in a different sense to the way we Brits use it. Need some American input on this.....susan....?
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Post by shadowhawke on May 9, 2011 1:47:12 GMT 1
Its a breed cause they have a registry, but its really a color. Its an open registry, like the pinto one. They'll register anything that's Palomino colored.
They also have a Buckskin registry.
Its mainly just something they have to jack up the price of the horse and give the owner bragging rights.
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Post by kunuma on May 9, 2011 11:08:33 GMT 1
. Its mainly just something they have to jack up the price of the horse and give the owner bragging rights. ^^^^^^ ;D What she said!! ;D
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Post by kunuma on May 9, 2011 11:20:42 GMT 1
;D That will teach me to try to be clever, Claire help I can't put a third option on the poll - do I need to start it again? Seriously, I think it is another English language issue, which hadn't occurred to me, over the water being very good at ignoring the original meaning of words. Howver with this in mind I looked up the definition in an American dictionary, (what did we do before google?) and it says NOUN: A group of organisms having common ancestors and certain distinguishable characteristics, especially a group within a species developed by artificial selection and maintained by controlled propagation. So even by their own definition it doesn't wash! You can certainly have a registry for colours, we have a Palomino registry over here, my girl is reg with them, and so is her daughter. It's where the 'breed' aspect of it crept in that I am intrigued by, as I found an article where they were saying that the colour came from an ancient breed called the Golden Dorado, (which I thought was a fish!) - which bred true. Now that is obviously a myth, but it's all over the net as a reason for it being a breed! Having started this just to be annoying - now I am intrigued!! Does anyone know what show classes they have for Palominos in America? I remember in Phantom horse they said his colour counted against him in a ridden class?? Took my mind off rescue work for a while anyway!
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Post by Claire on May 9, 2011 12:27:29 GMT 1
Thank you shadohawke, needed someone over the water to back me up ;D You cant change the poll once you have done it kunuma, thats why I'm always mucking up the top 10 polls If you are interested kunuma do some research on the British spotted pony, is this a colour breed as per palomino and pinto, or a 'proper' breed? Here is the website of the breed society: www.britishspottedponysociety.co.uk/
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Post by garej on May 9, 2011 18:46:03 GMT 1
I would say it is a colour because of genetics really. A palomino mated with another palomino does not equal an palomino foal.
Whereas if you mated a Shetland with another Shetland, then you would get an Shetland foal.
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Post by haffyfan on May 9, 2011 20:14:13 GMT 1
Colour... ...should i start a poll about a certain breed now Claire
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Post by Claire on May 9, 2011 22:27:05 GMT 1
Not sure what you mean haffy That one was an honest mistake!
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Post by jinglerebel on May 10, 2011 2:51:16 GMT 1
Colour! Also calling appaloosas (sp?) a breed is strange too, you see horses described as appaloosa that are actually solid coloured, although sometimes they describe these as appaloosa-bred, or solid-coloured appaloosa. To me it's a colour, their 'breed' could be shetland or quarter horse!
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Post by susanb on May 10, 2011 15:17:00 GMT 1
It's a color breed, the same as an Appalossa or a Pinto/Paint. Re the color counting against Phantom in a riding class, you have to remember that the US is a BIG country and very diverse! Phantom Horse was set in Virginia, on the East Coast, and the riding discipline in the east is predominantly English (hunter, jumper, dressage, etc). Color breeds, (because yes, there are breeders who breed to get a specific color rather than a specific trait or quality in a horse), are looked down upon here. Therefore it's tough for a horse that would fall into a color breed catagory (even if he/she didn't happen to have been bred specifically for the color) to get an even break in the show ring here. (See Harlequin Hullabaloo by Dorothy Lyons for furthe reference )
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Post by shadowhawke on May 10, 2011 17:37:07 GMT 1
Appy's a re a breed..... sort of. Appaloosa have a certian body type. They are pretty much a Quarter Horse with the chicken pox, and a Paint is a QH with spots. That's why you don't always get color with them. There are other breeds that with have Appaloosa spots... Colorado Ranger, British Spotted POny, Mini Horses, and the Kla...Warmblood over in Europe that I can't spell. A Pinto is anything that is Piebald or Skewbald(I'll use British terms for ya'll) a Paint is a Quarter Horse with spots. Pinto registry open to any breed, Paint closed... they only allow QH, and TB blood. Oh the things you learn from model horses......
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Post by Claire on May 10, 2011 23:22:36 GMT 1
Ooh I always wondered what the difference was between a pinto and a paint!
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Post by susanb on May 11, 2011 0:04:35 GMT 1
I wasn't aware of the breed registration difference myself, Claire....the books (western) I've read tend to use the term interchangeably (possibly they predate the registries?), and as I said, where I live I've never heard either....it's skewbald or piebald here!
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Post by Claire on May 11, 2011 0:21:37 GMT 1
Interesting susan, I didnt know Americans used the terms pie and skewbald. Its like you said with the Phantom thing tho, America is so huge there are bound to be huge differences in things like expressions and names for things. Britain is so small we Brits tend not to quite grasp how huge the USA is!
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