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Post by kunuma on Feb 18, 2011 19:45:31 GMT 1
Rosie I am watching it tonight and will pass it on to you afterwards!
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Post by Claire on Feb 18, 2011 20:35:54 GMT 1
Thanks kunuma apologies for nominating you without asking! I'm going to put up a poll now and we can start at the weekend if people want and the others can join in when they've watched it.
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 18, 2011 21:07:17 GMT 1
I have managed to scrounge a copy from a friend so I will try and watch it over the weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 21:32:57 GMT 1
Rosie I am watching it tonight and will pass it on to you afterwards! Thanks very much Kunuma
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 21:34:02 GMT 1
And forgot to say if anyone wants it after me I can pass it on
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Post by Claire on Feb 20, 2011 21:45:36 GMT 1
Hi all, anyone ready to discuss the film yet?
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Post by kunuma on Feb 20, 2011 21:53:58 GMT 1
Shoot, I knew there was something I was meant to be doing tonight!! Right, off to do it NOW!!
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Post by Claire on Feb 20, 2011 22:46:51 GMT 1
lol kunuma its not a homework assignment you know ;D
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 20, 2011 22:50:41 GMT 1
Lol you two. I managed to watch it and will join in the discussion soon. I'm a bit pressed for time tomight....but I did vote!
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Post by Claire on Feb 21, 2011 14:11:31 GMT 1
Gotta go out now but I will be posting my impression of it this evening.
Just thought I'd add - To those who havent watched it yet:
SPOILERS AFTER THIS POINT! If you dont want to find out more, do not read further until you have seen it
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Post by Claire on Feb 21, 2011 21:32:49 GMT 1
I thought it was a good film, well produced, reasonably well-acted kept me interested, but for me there was something missing, not sure exactly what. But something that other racing films like Pharlap and National Velvet & Seabiscuit had. It did a good job of putting across the facts, and emphasised just how good Secretariat was. That 30 length victory in the last leg of the triple crown was just amazing and it brought a lump to the throat thinking just how incredible a horse he was, and what incredible animals horses are in general.
One of my main gripes, which is surprising as I usually like the actress playing the part, came with the character of Mrs. T who I didnt really find all that sympathetic. Although I admired her guts and determination I though she seemed to care more about winning than the welfare of the horse. She picks a jockey who has 'burst the heart' of a horse by forcing it to win, to ride her own horse, and risks Secretariat breaking down by potentially over-training him. And she didnt seem to spend much time with her poor kids either.
And what was with all the bible references and gospel music? I didn't really find that bible quote very endearing or appropriate as it was talking about a horse going into war and not being afraid, when I am sure quite the opposite is true and I can't believe any horse would choose to go to war and is forced to by man. You could say men force the horses to race so it is appropriate but running at least is a natural state for horses, and if you have had any dealings with racehorses you will know that loads of them do love to race - and obviously Secretariat did.
The races were as is usual for a racing film, over dramatised. I had to laugh the first race he won as a 2 year old. I guess it would have been a 6 furlong sprint, which if you have ever watched them are over almost before they begin, well they dont last much more than a minute and its a pretty short distance. In the film it seemed to go on for a lot longer. Also it seemed to be a much longer distance and round a long bend! Do American 6f sprints go round bends as ours are usually straight.
Not sure exactly how accurate everything was in general as I am not overly familiar with the whole story of Secretariat. That thing with the coin tossing for example - does anyone know if that was true?
I think the film was a good opening for anyone wanting to know more about Secretariat and maybe American horse racing in general, so they could maybe go on and find more about the subject, and it has certainly got me googling! But, for me, although entertaining, it was definitely not a classic of the genre.
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Post by susanb on Feb 21, 2011 22:34:37 GMT 1
Claire, I'd have to agree with your assessment....it was ok, I don't regret watching it, and it's always nice to see beautiful horses, but given the subject matter it was surprisingly flat. I think the effort to gin up the drama (women's rights! father's death! marital troubles! kids' war protests!) backfires and actually makes it LESS exciting than it would have been had they concentrated on the horse, his training and development. Re Turcott....I tend to doubt he was an abusive rider.....I think it was yet another attempt to add drama. A rider that kills off his mounts is a rider who quickly becomes an ex-rider. I also found the gospel music and Biblical quotes bizarre...why? Too cheap to hire a composer to produce original music? And yes, whoever picked that particular quote has never seen a horse in his/her life. There are 6 furlong races round one turn. I could be wrong, but I think they tend to be for younger horses, to give them the experience in racing around a turn. Re the dramatics for the racing scenes themselves....ususally a movie makes a race seem MORE exciting, but I find the film of the real Belmont Stakes more thrilling (if less well focused ) www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/secretariat-1973-belmont-stakes-a-new-look/130fe9945efbf715caf5130fe9945efbf715caf5-463752070145?q=secretariat+belmont+stakes&FORM=VIRE3BTW, re Secretariat's love of racing, look at the Belmont win....as the announcer point out, he was hand-ridden all the way...not a whiff of a crop. One thing they didn't really go into was that all those people who invested in Secretariat as a stud didn't come out of the deal all that well....his get weren't all that spectacular, unlike a previous generation's "Big Red", Man o'War, who sired War Admiral (Triple Crown winner), Battleship (Grand National) and Hard Tack....a rotten tempered stallion and unsuccesful racehorse who sired Seabiscuit.
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 21, 2011 22:55:23 GMT 1
I agree with you two. I am not a real racing fan or fan of racing films but I had heard that this film was something special. I didn't think it was however. I didn't mind the heroine too much but I thought there were a lot of stereotyped characters such as the eccentric trainer, the faithful 'family retainer', the overbearing older brother, etc. However maybe there were really like that in real life. I liked the bits with the horse in the stable the best. He seemed to have a real character. I voted average, although I was maybe being a bit critical.
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Post by kunuma on Feb 21, 2011 23:01:59 GMT 1
Rosie will be relieved to learn I did get round to watching it and will post it on now.
I'm boringly going to pretty much reiterate what others have said, considering it was a Disney film there was way too much people and far too little horse!
My equine racing heroes being English horses like Red Rum, Arkle and Desert Orchid, I knew next to nothing about Secretariat, and he was an amazing horse, but quite frankly I only realised just how amazing after the film when I watched the RL footage!
I was completely unable to understand the way we were apparently meant to feel sorry for the 'poor' woman who inherited a multi million dollar TB breeding farm, and had problems fitting it in round the ironing!! However then I realised the RL Penny is still alive, and was both in the film and in charge of it, so I could see why we had her slant on things, and why we got all that boring and irrelevant stuff about her daughters thrown in! We got all that and so little about the horse as a horse, he wasn't just a racing machine! Story aside, (and the REAL story gets 11 out of 10 from me) I didn't really like the way it was filmed, fyi camermen, a horse is at his most beautiful loose without a rider, you can keep all the shots of hyped up eyes behind blinkers and heavy breathing - were they all hobdayed! lol One of the standins was a really beautiful horse and I would have loved to see more of him.
This is probably just me, after all I am getting senile now, but I kept getting muddled up with the characters. I know they were trying to get lookalikes to the real ones, but I couldn't tell the difference between the husband and the brother and the trainer and the other owner!!
Of course I was also cross that they didn't even mention the horses which played him in the credits.
BUT I am so glad that I watched it because I found out all about Secretariat, and watched that incredible, unrepeatable race for real. WOW
Just as a thought, half way through I realised where the story line in Bluegrass (borden deal) came from as I suddenly recognised the bloodlines they were talking about as being the ones she used for her Outlaw farm racehorses. I must re read it!
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Post by Claire on Feb 21, 2011 23:10:02 GMT 1
Wow the real life footage of the Belmont is amazing. For once they didnt hype the winning margin. Incredible considering it was a group 1 race, (or whatever equivalent US races are to our group 1s). I think the whole idea of the film was to concentrate on the woman character, probably so it would appeal to a wider range of people rather than being just a 'horse' film, but tbh i think they failed to some extent on both counts and it ended up somewhat 'neither fish nor fowl' Kunuma I found this article a while back about the real horses that played S in the film but forgot to send you the link: www.kypost.com/dpp/sports/horse_racing/film%3A-who-plays-secretariat%3F-As you can see they were chosen because they actually looked like him. EDIT - just read that article again and it seemed one of the horses they used for the racing shots got so competitive he kept trying to get in front of the others and mucked up some of the shots as he was suppose to lose. ;D Just reiterates the point that some horses just do love to race and want to win! Can't regret watching the film tho as like kunuma its opened my eyes to what a magnificent horse S was.
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Post by kunuma on Feb 21, 2011 23:15:26 GMT 1
Thanks Claire, the last sentence in that means the most to me!
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Post by susanb on Feb 22, 2011 16:46:21 GMT 1
LOL....I could tell the trainer by the weird clothes, (especially the hats), and the other owner because a) I've seen James Cromwell in a lot of pictures, from Babe (the pig) to LA Confidential and b) he's 6'7" tall, but I continually mixed up the brother and the husband....even in the scenes they had together!
A few professional reviews I read hit on that same issue....their surmise was that because Seabiscuit was such a hit, the writers/producers of Secretariat were trying to come up with some kind of hard luck angle to play off of.
They're called Grades rather than Groups here, but otherwise the same. Re winning margin: in the real life call of the race, the margin is given as 25 lengths during the live broadcast, but after, as they're pulling up, the announcer says something like "I said 25, but it may have been more than that"....when they reviewed footage, it was 31 lengths, and that's what they use in the call of the race in the movie.
It's an astonishing margin to win by, but I think the time is the more telling....a very good horse could win by many lengths over mediocre horses, but that wasn't the case here.....the winning time of 2:24 is still the race record* and the record for 1 1/2 miles on dirt, all the more impressive in that there was nothing pushing him....no other horses coming up to challenge, a hand ride from the jockey.
*The race record for the Belmont at 1 1/2 miles, the race has been run at several different distances during it's early years, but settled at the present 1 1/2 in 1926
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Post by kunuma on Feb 22, 2011 21:43:35 GMT 1
How do you do all those separate quotes - I've never managed to do that!! I'm relieved it's not just me confused with the actors, I was wondering if I spent so much time with animals that I had just got to the stage where all people look the same to me!! ;D
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Post by susanb on Feb 22, 2011 23:05:18 GMT 1
Click on "reply" at the bottom of the thread (don't use the open quick message box)
In the "add tags" section above the message box, you'll see two rows of buttons...the second from the last on the bottom row looks like a page with a blue arrow pointing to the right. Click on that button and it will insert the word "quote" two times, in brackets, wherever your cursor is located in the message box.
Copy and paste whatever bits of messages you want to quote in between the two bracketed "quote"s
Repeat as necessary! I don't think there's a limit to how many quotes you stick into any post!
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Post by sarah on Feb 24, 2011 20:14:20 GMT 1
Finally got round to watching the film (thanks to Claire for sending me it). Just a few quick thoughts as I am about to go and watch The King's Speech. Hooray - there was not the usual incessant neighing every 10 seconds which is often the case in older horse films. Were some of the close up/camera on the helmet shots computer generated - some of them looked a bit odd to me. I wasn't a big fan of the main character - she really wasn't very pleasant (or especially interesting) - would have much prefered it to be more about the horse. He he - it brought a tear (or two) to my eye!!! I've been googling away madly: Look at the length of his stride in this photo: 3.bp.blogspot.com/_l80GiiW2rtc/S9qkfj6AJ6I/AAAAAAAAA9M/EZBEoArDZo4/s1600/Secretariat_Preakness-thumb-534x424.jpgBits that made me laugh - when he ate a whole bucket of oats before the Kentucky Derby and survived!!! When the camera caught the jockeys pulling back instead of urging their horses on in the heat of the finish. Love the story of the horse that got too competitive.
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Post by Claire on Feb 24, 2011 21:31:36 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 13:44:14 GMT 1
I've just received it....thanks Kunuma I'll watch it tonight. If anyone else wants to watch it after me, please let me know and I'll post it on to you.
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Post by kunuma on Feb 26, 2011 15:23:25 GMT 1
Glad it got there OK rosie, I had a panic just as I was about to put it in the post box as to whether it would go letter post or not - I thought it ought to but I know what the PO is like so I rushed into town to check it, and yep, believe it or not, a CD is too huge to go letter post! Bring back the Pony Express I say! Claire that was a fascinating comparison, 'cos like you say, those fully extended horses always look all wrong, but of course the gallop is the only pace where they do have all four legs off the ground at one point. Can any budding historian tell me when time lapse photography was invented, I'm thinking way after paintings like that - but I was away the day they did history as well as the day they did geography!!
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Post by sarah on Feb 26, 2011 20:27:16 GMT 1
Forgot - what was the trainer burning in a cup. The volume on my laptop is c**p so might have missed it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 7:40:29 GMT 1
I agree with you two. I am not a real racing fan or fan of racing films but I had heard that this film was something special. I didn't think it was however. I didn't mind the heroine too much but I thought there were a lot of stereotyped characters such as the eccentric trainer, the faithful 'family retainer', the overbearing older brother, etc. However maybe there were really like that in real life. I liked the bits with the horse in the stable the best. He seemed to have a real character. I voted average, although I was maybe being a bit critical. I agree entirely with darkhorse comments. I thought it was a bit dull to be honest Definately not enough about the horse himself. One minute he's born and the next he's ready to race, nothing about his training. I felt a bit disappointed at that point.
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Post by Claire on Mar 6, 2011 20:13:41 GMT 1
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Post by shadowhawke on Mar 9, 2011 4:58:48 GMT 1
Ihaven't seen it yet.. Which sucks, Secretariat is my all time favorite racehorse. Its coming though...finally had the money to order from Amazon. Should be here by Thursday. He and man O War had a big stride...I think Man OWar's was 28 feet?? Good book about him out there. I'll get back to ya'll with the title. Secretariat's people loved him from what I've read.... somewhere I have a letter from him(well his people) I wrote to him before he died and they sent back answers to my questions, as well as a nice picture of him. Again, its somewhere packed away. Claire, thanks for the book links. I am going to be searching the shelves at the used bookstores. I've never heard of them, or I would of gotten them.
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Post by foxglove on May 11, 2011 14:57:17 GMT 1
I saw this on the plane recently, so wouldn't have got the full benefit of cinematography and sound from the little screen (how on earth can people "watch" films on their mobile phones?!).
I thought it was distinctly underwhelming, which seems a shame given the horse himself was so awe-inspiring. The Secretariat story is in itself interesting, but they clearly felt the need to invent dramatic obstacles for the sake of a bit of narrative tension. What was all that guff about it being daring and innovative to cross stamina and speed bloodlines? What was wrong with using "in foal" instead of "pregnant"? I winced at the huge bucket of oats too.
I need to go and re-read his profile in my copy of Thoroughbred Stallions (Tony Morris is the best bloodstock writer IMO, and totally rubbishes the doseage theory), but from memory Secretariat had the most stunningly perfect confirmation; the absolute poster boy for the TB breed. In a way he was a freakish one-off, never managing to sire a horse anywhere near as good as himself and therefore considered disappointing at stud. He is now looked upon as a notable broodmare influence though; he is the damsire of champion stallion Storm Cat.
Not quite 31 lengths, but Frankel (a grandson of Saddlers Wells who died this week, and a great grandson of Northern Dancer) put up a pretty breathtaking display in this year's 2000 Guineas: You don't often see a Classic won from the front that easily, and jockeys in a Classic realise they're in trouble after a furlong.
Another of my favourites is Arazi in the Breeders Cup Juvenile: Sadly didn't reach the same heights as a 3 year old, but I still like to see him in a pedigree- love the flashy chestnut line from Blushing Groom.
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Post by shadowhawke on May 11, 2011 17:23:56 GMT 1
OK, I finally saw it. Bought it from Amazon with my birthday money. I liked it. They didn't Disneyfiy it..... but they left stuff out that I think they should of left in. Like Riva Ridge, his stablemate. Also a Derby winner(1972) The only time a stable has one back to back Derby's.... Riva was a good horse. Also untill recently Turcott was the only jockey with back to back Derby's. Calvin Borail did the recently with Mine That Bird and Super Saver..... Missed it this year There were few other things..... Can't remember them..... Still in all I liked the movie. Not great but good. Worth watching a few more times.
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Post by cally on Aug 8, 2011 0:28:46 GMT 1
Haven't seen the film but we did have a grandson of Secretariat at the dressage stable for a while recovering from founder and he was a blanket appaloosa.
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