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Post by Claire on Jan 25, 2010 20:20:07 GMT 1
Our next reading circle book is to be Horse in the House by William Corbin. This is a departure from the norm as its an American book. For any of you new to the reading circle we usually have about 7-10 days from posting the thread to starting the discussion in order to give everyone time to get hold of a copy and read it. In the discussion we will, as well as obvious things as whether you liked the book or not, discuss plot, character, themes etc. In this case it may also be interesting to note any differences between the traditional English pony book which we have been reading in the last few circles, to the American. Don't forget if you want to join in but don't have a copy post here in case anyone has a spare copy they can lend you. I'll post a poll in few days. Enjoy!
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Post by Claire on Feb 3, 2010 15:13:39 GMT 1
Hi all have added poll. I've now read it. How is everyone else getting on?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 18:03:37 GMT 1
I'm ready to go when everyone else is.
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 3, 2010 21:57:23 GMT 1
Me too
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Post by susanb on Feb 5, 2010 15:55:03 GMT 1
finished my re-read last night, so I'm ready to go!
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Post by Claire on Feb 5, 2010 20:24:32 GMT 1
Hi all, I'll start the ball rolling. I've read it before a while back but (unlike kunuma lol) couldnt remember much about it! I really enjoyed re-reading it. The book is very well written and the characters are just excellent and extremely well drawn. I like slightly quirky character studies rather than the usual stock cliche characters that often appear in pony books. The sisters and their interaction remind me a little of the family in National Velvet. Ritchie is a great boy hero. He's not too perfect or overbearing but not too wet either. I like the way that Melanie is annoyed with him for not spending enough time on his horse when its obvious to the reader its cos if he was on his horse he would be riding with her! Do you folks think that Ritchie was such a good male character cos the book was written by a male? But then again the girls characters were fab too. Also the horse character of Orbit was given a bit of depth too. Even the minor characters are good. I especially like the woman on the houseboat who chucks her baby into the water in a life belt tied to the boat! I also like the parents. I havent read a massive amount of American pony books but in many of them the parents/adults seem to be more central than in a lot of UK pony/holiday adventure books where parents and adults are bumped off or sent abroad to get them out of the way! Do you think this is true Susan? Another difference I find with American pony books is that they often adhere less to a set pattern/plot than British ones. Altho the book is on the whole about a horse being stolen and recovered (quite a well-used plot) it follows a more circuitous route with of course the unusual plan of bringing Orbit into the house being part of it. Unlike a normal pony book where the horse is being trained for a show or to improve its manners etc, Melanie is training Orbit to come into her house! Two things I didnt like as much as the rest of the book were the GiGi incident which I found quite upsetting (altho it was done very well and was not dwelt upon too much) and also the bit about the rescue of Orbit which I thought was over-melodramatic and a bit unlikely. But then again my own preference is for less dramatic stories so it is more of a personal thing. Its funny we were also talking about Dark Horse of Woodfield earlier cos in a way this book reminds me of that one. Both are quirky with eccentric characters and both even have horses coming indoors in them! If you liked this book you will definitely like Dark Horse. Well I could go on for longer as I really like this book but will let someone else have a go!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2010 21:53:43 GMT 1
I think this is the first American pony book I've read. I loved it. Ritchie is just my kind of guy, Orbit my kind of horse and the story isn't the slightest bit boring. The part about melanie training orbit to go in the house was quite believable and I can relate to melanie always smelling of horse! I like the illustrations too.
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Post by Claire on Feb 5, 2010 22:33:31 GMT 1
Yup still love that smell of horse and can't understand people who don't! My own Domino used to come half way in the kitchen to get his treats. I didnt train him tho he did it of his own accord
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Post by kunuma on Feb 5, 2010 22:50:01 GMT 1
Loved the book, loved the people in it, never thought of the National Velvet link before, but you are quite right Claire. One of the few books where the relationship was so well done and believable between the stallion and Melanie. (But what breed was he?) The part where she asks him to go backwards and go out of the door again because he pushed through is so much the epitome of successful horse handling, especially with stallies! I was thinking about that only today, as I went through the back gate three times , because a certain overenthusiastic canine forgot his manners and tried to go out first!
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Post by susanb on Feb 6, 2010 2:49:25 GMT 1
I'm so glad we wound up doing this one for reading circle, as I liked it even better the second time around! To my thinking, it's not so much a book about plot as it is about character. The plot, as Claire rightly pointed out, is a bit much in places (the thing that struck me as unbelievable was how long it took Melanie to catch on that someone might want to STEAL Orbit, especially given that it took her about two seconds to suspect someone of wanting to hurt him). And the deus ex machina, having the outsider swoop in and save the day (financially) in the end is a bit cliche. (None of which stops it from being kind of fun though ) It's the character and character development where the book shines, and what makes it so likeable. Melanie is a great character....her love of Orbit, and her even greater love for her sister, for whom she's willing to make such a great sacrifice. It's done in a believable way too, I felt....you understand that this isn't an easy decision for her, and that she knows what a huge hole this is going to leave in her life. It's the real transition from childhood to adulthood when you begin to put the feelings and needs of loved ones ahead of your own, and I think that makes the book, in a real sense, a coming of age story. I loved the character of Katie too, which made it easy to see why Melanie would want to help her....clever, good humored, kind, willing to join in the fun, even though she was the "brain" of the family. It was great when she understood immediately how important doing the crazy thing can be....how it's the things that we leave undone that are regretted as we grow older (and I adored the elderly shopkeeper....he comes into the story for only a few pages, and enriches it immeasurably). The parents were both well developed and likeable as well...the painter mother, with alarm clocks all over the place, and "Sergent Cuddles" architect/builder father....I loved when Katie says to Melanie that she (Melanie) had better not decide to take up lion taming, because their dad will let her do it, and their mom will just go into a coma at the thought! It seemed to sum up all the characters so well! And Ritchie...well, really, what can you say? What that boy went through for "his girl", from guarding her horse all night, night after night, without ever telling her, to going off alone after the horse thief, to cheerfully setting out with her again to commandeer a boat and "break some more laws" in pursuit of the villians. (I was tickled, though, to see that she gets to rescue him right back!). Oh, and the HORSE! The look inside Orbit's head was great....I loved that he thought of Melanie as THE "It" and of Ritchie as the "Lesser It" (who ususally smelled of Baldy, but now just smelled awful). You could really go on and on....the mother/college professor who is teaching Katie Russian while her baby paddles cheerfully on the end of it's tether is hysterical, but even getting down to minor characters, like the policeman who stops Melanie's dad from going down to the docks is good....you can almost "see" him, even though his role is only a few short lines. Even the hawk circlling over the river, looking down on the two "splashy things" (Melanie and Ritchie) on the off chance that they might have something to do with breakfast. Hm...I guess that's another thing that really came through...humor....it's subtle, dry, witty, but very much there.....not in a yuck a minute sense, but in an every day sense, if you see what I mean. Whoops! Went on for longer than I'd intended...time for me to stop and give everyone else a chance! Claire...re the US vs UK families in pony books....I'd never thought of it before....will scan the shelves (and poor sieve -ike memory) and post tomorrow!
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Post by Claire on Feb 6, 2010 12:51:39 GMT 1
Great post susan! Enjoyed reading your views on it.
I have been thinking about the parent thing and there are a few Brit books where the parents are important, for example the Monica Edwards books (the father even takes part in one of old Jim's boating escapades!), Mrs Crewe in the Jill books and of course the parents in National Velvet, esp the mother are very important figures. JPT also has some good parent/adults, most notably of course Major Holbrooke who acts as a parental figure in the Pony Club books. But on the other hand a huge number of books are about orphans, or whose parents are abroad or who are off camping etc away from them. I suppose this comes from the traditional 'holiday adventure' story in which the focus is on kids having a good time (or sometimes more melodramatic adventures) away from any grown upl influence. Not sure if you have this sort of book in America susan, as I havent read enough old US childrens lit to know.
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Post by susanb on Feb 7, 2010 19:05:20 GMT 1
Have pondered for a day or two, and am still not sure!
As you say in your most recent post, I've thought of a number of books where the parents/siblings are important: the parents in Vian Smith's King Sam (aka Tall and Proud), the stepmother and sister in Joanna Cannan's Gaze at the Moon, the brother in K.M. Peyton's Fly-by-Night and The Team.
And there are American books that have the parents missing...Patsey Gray's books come to mind: The Horse Trap, 4-H Filly, Heads Up! all have parent's either absent or dead, Star the Seahorse, Blue Ribbon Summer and, to a lesser extant, Horsepower, have girls living away from home.
All that said, there does seem to be a stronger tradition in the UK for children living apart from their parents. Boarding schools (Public Schools in the UK), certainly exist in the US, but they're not as common or as popular...they tend to be something that a child might be threatened with than anything else (behave yourself and keep your grades (marks) up, or it's off to boarding school with you, young lady!).
It's almost unheard of for a parent to leave their child (or children) with a relative while they go abroad for any extended time in American books...in the only instance I can think of, the father is off on business and the mother is dead. Generally, if the parents are going, the kids are going with them.
None of which gets us any further in the analysis, does it? I guess I've really just muddied the water even further!
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Post by susanb on Feb 7, 2010 19:08:08 GMT 1
Almost forgot....your comparison to National Velvet struck me as apt....especially when I thought of Mrs. Brown advocating the "importance of follly".
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Post by susanb on Feb 7, 2010 19:22:07 GMT 1
I keep forgetting things today...maybe I should have had a third cup of coffee this morning!
Re the "holiday-adventure" books...you know, off the top of my head I can't think of any! There is a definite tradition of "kids entirely on their own" books, but it tends to be of necessity, and the focus is survival or work, not having a good time. My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George, Hatchet by Gary Paulson, Seven Alone by Honore Morrow stand out as examples of the survival genre.
In Patsey Gray's The Horse Trap and 4-H Filly, girls are left alone minding the family stables and ranch, respectively, so it's work, not a holiday. Pretty much the same thing when you see Charlie camping and traveling the mountain ranges in The Golden Stallion...it's ranch work that he's expected to do, not a camping adventure.
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Post by Claire on Feb 7, 2010 21:13:52 GMT 1
Very interesting about the holiday adventure thing. I always suspected it was more of a British thing. Maybe cos the kids in such books were almost always middle class with not a lot of chores or work to do - unlike the American kids.
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Post by susanb on Feb 9, 2010 17:35:57 GMT 1
rosie...almost forgot to say, I love Sam Savitt's illustrations too....he was one of the most popular American illustrators of all time. Even if you never read a book (gasp...horrors!), if you rode, you knew his work, because this poster was on the wall of every tack room I ever saw: www.samsavitt.com/guidehrs.htmlIt's hard to see when it's so small, but it has drawings and descriptions of a number of breeds, plus three larger pictures with notations as to the points, musculature and bone structure of the horse.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 19:41:20 GMT 1
It's so nice to see illustrations in pony books where the illustrator is good at drawing horses. And Sam Savitt is very much one of them. I always feel slightly disappointed if a pony book has really badly drawn horses, even if the story is good. I've just had an idea for a poll Sorry Claire completely off topic but is it possible to have a poll on our favourite pony book illustrators when the favourite boy one is finished?
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Post by Claire on Feb 9, 2010 20:01:12 GMT 1
Yes Rosie its a good idea for a poll. But there are a lot of illustrators out there. We'd have to narrow it down a little. I agree that great illustrations add to the attraction of a book and can even in some cases detract from books that are a bit lacking.
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Post by darkhorse on Feb 11, 2010 20:59:54 GMT 1
Sorry I don't have much to add to the discussion except that I really liked this book, the characters and the horse. Apart from the "classic" American books we have all read like Flicka, Black Stallion and Misty, it's the first American one I have tackled. I am now eager to look for more. I want to try the Darkhorse one next. Also Susanb, could you please give any recommendations of similar American pony stories that are not too rare?
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Post by kunuma on Feb 11, 2010 21:24:43 GMT 1
Has anyone read any of his other books?? There is one about a German Shepherd that I would love to get my hands on - are his other books as good?
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Post by susanb on Feb 11, 2010 22:16:25 GMT 1
darkhorse, re other books that aren't too expensive, there are several I can name, the problem would be finding them with not-too-expensive shipping! Ebay is probably the best bet, since sellers ususally charge reasonable prices for overseas shipping....some sellers on abebooks do too, but it's a matter of shopping around a bit. Dark Horse of Woodfield is a great one to try next, because it had a printing in the UK (and because it's a very fun book!). Anyway, that said, in no particular order:
Dark Sunshine by Dorothy Lyons Most of her books are very expensive and hard to find, but this one, which I think is her best, had two hardcover and two paperback printings, (and thus can be found very inexpensively)...the text is the same in all editions...American publishers didn't generally edit or abridge books as they went into new editions.
Saddles for Breakfast by Janet Randall (lovely book, but the only one by her worth buying...luckily it's the also easiest to find)
The Sweet Running Filly by Pat Johnson and Barbara van Tuyl (mystery). Its the first in a short series, but works very well as a stand alone.
The Crumb by Jean Slaughter Doty, like Lyons' Dark Sunshine, this one had multiple printings (two hardcover and one paperback), and is one of the most available of her books. Aimed at an older reader than her Summer Pony/Winter Pony pair. Make sure you have a hanky ready. I know that will put some off, but it really is a wonderful book.
The Secret Horse by Marion Holland, another with three printings: one hardcover, two paperback. This one is really a rescue/adventure book, without riding, in which two girls steal (erm....rescue) and hide an abandoned horse...I know, sounds a bit like JPT's All Change/The Hidden Horse, which was published two years later, but any similarity is superficial.
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Post by susanb on Feb 11, 2010 22:20:56 GMT 1
kunuma....I've read his two other horse books, Golden Mare and Pony for Keeps, which were good, but not up to the standard of Horse in the House. The only other book I've read by him so far is The Prettiest Gargoyle, which I really, really enjoyed and highly recommend, if you read books other than pony books, that is! It only came out in hardcover, but is available quite inexpensively.
Smoke, which I'm guessing is the German Shepherd book you mention (he has another called A Dog Worth Stealing, which seems to be more rare), lurks in my tbr pile....planning on reading it in the next few weeks (the big American dog show, Westminster, starts Monday, which always puts me in a dog-story mood!). I'll post on this thread when I've finished it!
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Post by Claire on Feb 12, 2010 14:12:50 GMT 1
I haven't heard of the Prettiest Gargoyle susan, it sounds an interesting title. What genre is it? Is it an adult or children's book? Looking at the books you suggest for darkhorse to read, I have never come across Saddles for Breakfast either. Another author to add to the old website!
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Post by susanb on Feb 12, 2010 16:30:36 GMT 1
Re The Prettiest Gargoyle...it's a children's book, and general fiction. Here's the dj blurb:
"Paris in the spring was about the last place in the world that thirteen-year-old Michael Horner wanted to be. But his father was doing research and his mother and siste were delighted with the French shops and museums, so Michael didn't seem to have much choice.
Until one day he took matters into his own hands and quit school to become an authority on gargoyles - the gargoyles ornamenting the top of the Cathedral of Notre Dame. But it isn't until late one night that Michael notices the most special one of them all - the gargoyle that could only be described as pretty!
Everyone knows that there is no such thing as a pretty gargoyle. So Michael sets out to discover who or what this creature could possibly be. Before he is through, he has been chased through Paris by les flics (the police), discovered an unsuspected talent, and had a surprising change of heart about several things."
Like Horse in the House, this one is very character driven...the parents, the sister, the boy and (this isn't really giving away as much as it might seem) the runaway girl.
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Post by susanb on Feb 12, 2010 17:24:24 GMT 1
Re Saddles for Breakfast...here's a pic! It came out both as a trade hardcover and as a book club hardcover...they're identical, except the book club edition doesn't have a price on the dj flap.
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Post by Claire on Feb 12, 2010 20:52:24 GMT 1
Thanks for the info and pic susan. Yep, I like the sound of the Gargoyles story. I think I will have to keep an eye out for it.
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Post by foxglove on Mar 1, 2010 12:39:28 GMT 1
I re-read this over the weekend. I think I only read it once in my childhood as it wasn't one of my favourites, and all I recalled was the horse's name (never come across another Orbit, real or fictional, since) and the sagging floor problem as he came into the house.
I quite enjoyed the re-read, about two decades later, and was wondering why it didn't grab me as a young reader. The characters and family banter were particularly well written and it's quite pacey, and Orbit has great personality and presence. I think maybe I found Melanie's life a bit too perfect; the idea of having your own horse (a breedy, palomino stallion no less) in your back garden, that you'd raised from a foal, and could ride whenever you wanted was like a total fantasy when I was 11 or so.
As an adult reader, what struck me was how well the book has dated (over 40 years old). There's nothing to particularly date it to the 1960s, it's just a simple classic early teens adventure story. I think modern authors could learn a lot from this. How many contemporary books are filled with references to Facebook, brand names and techie gadgets that are probably horribly dated within a year?
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Post by Claire on Mar 1, 2010 12:50:46 GMT 1
I think some books do seem different when you re-read them as an adult. I never actually read this book as a child so I only have an adults perspective of it, but I think the quirky characters and their interaction would be the part that appeals most to adults, perhaps hence the high scores on here by all the adult readers! I think a lot of the time you don't appreciate as a child some of what gives books extra depth to an adult reader.
Conversely some books you love as a child, seem less than inspiring when you read as an adult! Its quite nice that we can compare our reactions as a child and adult to most of the books on here, in some ways its more interesting than a normal reading circle as we often have 2 different reactions - child and adult.
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Post by foxglove on Mar 2, 2010 10:14:17 GMT 1
Yes, good points Claire.
I think Susan Cooper is the only childhood author I have re-read as an adult, indeed her books are still on my shelves and Over Sea, Under Stone (which I got for my 9th birthday) is the oldest book I own and still display. I do wonder if all my childhood favourites would stand up to adult re-reading, and whether it is a good idea to distort the good memories of Jinny, Flicka et al with a grown-up eye.
I have re-read quite a lot of my books over the last couple of years (can never understand people who think books only need to be read once!). Some have not stood the test of time, for example The Catcher In The Rye was one of my Top Five when I was 18. Reading it ten years later I found it pretty tiresome. On the other hand, some things I had to read quickly at university in order to write an essay on, such as Kipling's Kim, I enjoyed and appreciated far more when re-reading at leisure. I'd also forgotten how exquisite The Mill On The Floss is (first read when about 17), and have recently been rediscovering a lot of 20s and 30s literature read clinically at uni, such as Woolf and Waugh (I think a lot of posters on here would love Stella Gibbons' Cold Comfort Farm, if they don't already know it). Wuthering Heights and Lord of the Rings seem pretty timeless in my affections however.
I am looking forward to reading Six Ponies for the first time as an adult, and comparing my reaction to yours (cannot believe that this pivotal series completely passed me by as a child!).
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Post by Claire on Mar 2, 2010 22:40:00 GMT 1
I must admit I have read most pony books as a child and an adult and a lot I still enjoy, some I have got more out of, like the Jinny series. The Noel and Henry series begining with Six Ponies I still enjoy as much as an adult as I did as a child. I have prob read them more than any of my other pony books and its like going back to old friends. I think I appreciate the adult characters more than I did as a child.
BTW foxglove which edition of Six Ponies are you about to read? As a child I always read the abridged Armada edition and when I finally read the first edition with the original text as an adult I was shocked to find how much they had chopped out of the original story. In fact I don't think the edited version lost anything, but the original story had some much darker elements in it. (Perhaps why it was chopped, as the rest of the series is very light hearted and humourous)
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