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Post by bronwyn on Oct 2, 2009 6:12:27 GMT 1
Hi everyone,
My name is Bronwyn, I have a PhD in literature, and currently I'm interested in writing an article on Patricia Leitch. As some of you may know, literary criticism of the pony book genre is almost non-existent, and much of what is out there is not very complimentary. In this article I intend to focus on Leitch, and in particular her Jinny series, as I think this is a great series which really pushes the boundaries of the pony book genre.
I know that among readers the Jinny series tends to produce sharply divergent opinions of either love it/hate it, and there are already some threads discussing this. What I'd like to do is include a few quotes that members have made about the Jinny book in various threads on this forum, just to contextualise the position of the Jinny books within the genre, and perhaps put forward some suppositions on why the books produce such different responses in different readers.
I have already sent Claire a couple of emails, and she thinks that the article is a great idea. So, I guess what I'd like to know is if anyone who has already commented on the earlier Leitch/Jinny threads would have a problem with me quoting some of their comments, and of course if anyone else would like to make some new comments on their perceptions and opinions of the Jinny series (and how it compares to Leitch's other books) that would be great too.
btw, if you have criticims of the series, or dislike it, don't feel compelled not to comment. I am interested in a range of views and opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2009 7:26:56 GMT 1
I'm happy to comment although I've not read all of her books.
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Post by zoe on Oct 2, 2009 10:31:40 GMT 1
Sounds like an interesting article - no probs from me.
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Post by trixiepony on Oct 2, 2009 10:41:58 GMT 1
Sound fine, I don't think I wrote much.
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Post by Claire on Oct 2, 2009 11:45:06 GMT 1
Hi Bronwyn glad you got the thread started. I think the Jinny books are a great topic to choose for an article as they manage to look into a huge range of different topics such as animal and human welfare, relationships, different cultures, myths and much more, whilst nominally staying within the confines of a traditional pony book plot (rescuing an ill-treated pony, training for jumping comps and so on).
I hope we will be of use to you in providing 'fodder' for the article!
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Post by kunuma on Oct 2, 2009 20:15:33 GMT 1
Hi Bronwyn, welcome to the board! I'm a Jinny fan through and through, and my ambition is to meet her and go and see Shantih. ( Erm OK perhaps haffy has a point about my getting books mixed up with real life! ) I would so love to know if P Leitch had a real life model for Shantih in mind when she wrote the books.
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Post by bronwyn on Oct 2, 2009 23:31:51 GMT 1
Hi everyone, Thanks for your responses Sorry it has taken me a while to respond - the time differences mean I'll probably only be on here during times when northern hemisphere people are fast asleep. Rosie - if you would like to comment, please do. I haven't read all of Leitch's books either. I do now finally have all 12 Jinny books, but they took me ages to collect. The other books of hers that I have are Dream of Fair Horses, The Horse from Black Loch, A Horse for the Holidays, Jump to the Top and A Pony of Our Own. I also read some of the Kestrals series, but it was a long time ago. Her books are near impossible to find in Australia, and it is expensive to buy them from overseas, so my collection only grows slowly. Kunuma - I would love to meet Pat Leitch too! There is an interview with her online (you might have seen it already) where she says that some of Shantih's character and history was based on her own pony, Kirsty, who had been abused before Leitch bought her and never really fully recovered from her experiences. Claire - your board and website is fantastic. I'm so glad it's here as a reference guide for all us pony nuts. And also thanks to zoe and trixiepony for your permission.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2009 12:35:22 GMT 1
It's been nice knowing you all but after I've admited that I don't like the Jinny books I shall be banished forever. Sorry Kunuma and Claire who I think are Jinny lovers. Well...I've read The magic Pony and Ride Like the Wind and that was enough for me. I didn't really like the mystical element and Jinny just made me cringe! I didn't read the Jinny series as a child and I wonder if I might have liked them more then On to her other non-Jinny books. I've read A Pony Of Our Own and Rebel Pony. I read these after the two Jinny books and was expecting not to like them, but I found them an enjoyable read
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Post by Claire on Oct 3, 2009 12:48:10 GMT 1
Ooh you are in the Jinny haters camp, go and stand in the corner ;D
Seriously tho, I think this love-hate thing with Jinny is something that Bronwyn is hoping to explore in her article. I don't think I've ever known another pony series which seems to have such strong pro and anti opinions.
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Post by kunuma on Oct 3, 2009 17:48:14 GMT 1
Rosie! And I used to think you were nice! OK so perhaps we should all go philosophical and work out why Jinny has this Marmite effect? Is it to do with why we read pony books? Do we have to like the characters to empathize with them? If we don't does it spoil the book? What is it in a certain character we like or dislike, is it whether we would be friends in RL or whether they are like or unalike ourselves (this is something I have always wondered and never sussed out!)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2009 18:26:25 GMT 1
I've packed my bags Kunuma, I'll just get my coat ;D Why do I not like Jinny? I couldn't relate to her in any way at all. I don't think she would be my best friend in real life so I guess that means I would probably have to empathize with the characters to enjoy the book.
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Post by Claire on Oct 3, 2009 20:40:43 GMT 1
Is it to do with why we read pony books? Do we have to like the characters to empathize with them? If we don't does it spoil the book? What is it in a certain character we like or dislike, is it whether we would be friends in RL or whether they are like or unalike ourselves (this is something I have always wondered and never sussed out!) Wow thats an interesting question and something I dont think we have discussed before. I read books for all sorts of reasons, sometimes for comfort, but other times to challenge my thinking. Depends on what mood I'm in. I guess those who mainly read pony books for comfort/feel good factor may not like the Jinny series. As for characters, I don't think you have to actually like the character that much to enjoy the book, altho I think it helps if you can empathise somewhat. I mean we have books with truly horrid main characters (who of course are transformed by the uplifting power of the horse lol) such as in They Bought Her A Pony and I Had Two Ponies to name but two. But I still enjoyed those books. I suppose in them the interest lies in how the character is improved throughout the course of the book. Jinny is not a wholly likeable character (some would say not likeable at all ) and I certainly wouldn't want her for a friend, but I for one empathise with her in many ways (maybe its cos I am a pain in the bum myself!) you can admire her courage and devotion to horses and also at the same time feel a sneaking sympathy for when she is acting up, cos you can probably remember doing something like that yourself! Maybe the fact that she reminds us of our own faults makes the books sometimes uncomfortable reading! I do prefer that sort of character to a goody two shoes or a clever know it all type. One of the most annoying characters I can think of is Ann from the H M Peel Ann and Jim series (tho I quite like the series) who is a bloomin paragon, brilliant at everything she does. That sort of person in books or in RL really gets up my nose ;D I feel that maybe that was why Leitch had the character of Petra in the books, cos lets face it even if you didnt like Jinny much surely nobody could like Petra! Her cloying perfectness seems to somehow make Jinny's misbehaviour more appealing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2009 21:00:26 GMT 1
I think that's about right for me Claire. But having said that I can't stand the perfect characters either as they are too sickly for words and I just want to slap them!
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Post by bronwyn on Oct 4, 2009 0:11:23 GMT 1
I did read some of the Jinny books as a child, but never the whole series because I could never find them. But re-reading the books as an adult (and reading some titles for the first time), I'm still impressed with the range of issues the books manage to touch upon, as well as just having beautiful writing and wonderfully atmospheric settings, and original and unusual plots.
I do really like Jinny as a character, in spite, or maybe because of, all her flaws. I find her much more interesting than the characters in a lot of other pony books, who really don't seem to have much scope beyond wanting a pony and/or winning a rosette at the local show. And like Gill in Dream of Fair Horses, Jinny is rarely granted easy solutions or quick fixes to her problems, and she is left to sort them out on her own as best she can, often with imperfect results.
And the passion she feels is seen as both a strenth and a weakness. It means her heart is in the right place, but she does do crazy and silly things because of her feelings as well, like going out to look for Shantih in a snow-storm in the first book, and almost dying. I think there is even a quote in the books somewhere about how Jinny loves too deeply and will always be hurt because of it. But when the alternative is becoming a Petra or a Clare Burnley who doesn't feel anything deeply, and only cares about succeeding and fitting in, Jinny doesn't look too bad by comparison.
Regarding the mystical element, I think this too is done differently to many other pony books that have a magic element. In a lot of magical-element pony books (as well as a lot of children's books with magic generally), magic is "othered". It is seen as something different, outside the normal parameters of reality, and the borders between the "real world" and the "magical world" are pretty firmly enforced. I think in the Jinny books Leitch is more interested in exploring the primal forces which underwrite everyday life, and which are always there whether we want to acknowledge them or not. These forces are not always easily understood, and they are not soft and fluffy, often being caught up with a complex response of awe and terror as well as wonder. In The Red Horse, for example, Jinny is terrified of the red horse at first, until she understands and accepts the task he has given her.
Leitch uses a similar approach to "magic" in The Horse from Black Loch. After seeing the Water Horse, Edgar wants scientists to have the opportunity to study the horse and understand how it works, and Kay is horrified by his attitude. He says to Kay, "I suppose all you'd want to do is sit and stare at it and say 'Oh how beautiful!'" Unable to cope with the beauty, wonder and terror of the Water Horse, Edgar wants to reduce it into human terms, thus taking away its power. And I think this is what all humans tend to do when faced with the enormity of Life. We break it up, make it small, order it and bury it under timetables and office blocks and cement, but it is still always there, underneath, waiting for us if we have the courage, like Jinny or Kay, to see it.
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Post by kunuma on Oct 4, 2009 20:21:27 GMT 1
I wondered today if some of the marmite effect was purely because few pony book characters are done in such depth as Jinny was. Trying to think of other characters who had the chance to appear in as many books takes me to Jill (and of course Ann) and there is the infamous Jackie. Now I suppose Jill has to be the number one character, but IMHO regarding what Bronwyn just said about how Jinny never got 'easy solutions or quick fixes to her problems' I think I really could empathise with her ( this wretched spell check thing is yet again arguing with me about how to spell empathise, I'm not giving in this time!)about this part most of all. Jill may say she didn't have it easy, but she did really!! (She lived in a house with a stable and a paddock for starters, and just down the road from a riding school!!) Jackie, well I am sorry - but she doesn't come across as a character at all really for me - but does have amazing Peter Pan skills! So is the amount of books Jinny stars in the reason why she comes across so strongly?? Well I thought perhaps it was until I remembered Carol, Stevie and Lisa. ;D Nope, takes more than loads of books to get a memorable character. So, why is the Jinny character so powerful?
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Post by Claire on Oct 4, 2009 21:06:48 GMT 1
I wonder if liking marmite has any correlation to liking Jinny ;D I think some of KMP's heroines are also as powerful and complex as Jinny. In a way Ruth is similar in that she never seems to go for the easy way out, and always seems to go against others judgement. But she seems to be more likeable across the board than Jinny. Kunuma you must have the dreaded American spellchecker!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 8:15:06 GMT 1
Strangely I like marmite and I like Jill too. Don't know what that says about me ;D
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Post by kunuma on Oct 5, 2009 10:32:41 GMT 1
;D ;D kunuma leaps in with her wooden spoon now, I don't like Ruth!!
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Post by Buster on Oct 5, 2009 12:40:21 GMT 1
Quote away Ive only read one Jinny book, but I really liked it! I love the magical element in it and also the arabian mare...
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Post by Claire on Oct 5, 2009 13:52:08 GMT 1
Do you like the characters of Jinny and/or Ruth mysteryarab? Do you like Marmite lol. I like marmite and Jinny ;D Actually I always think of Jinny as the black midget gem of the pony book world ;D Sorry Bronwyn you'll soon find out we are all quite mad here
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Post by kunuma on Oct 5, 2009 18:02:17 GMT 1
;D ;D There's adverts for Marmite all over the site now!! ;D ;D Are we having a Jinny v Ruth face off??
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Post by haffyfan on Oct 5, 2009 19:28:20 GMT 1
Well I like marmite (on toast...as long as mum doesn't make it as she puts it on like chocalate spread!) and marmite crisps are yummy scrummy ;D but I don't like Jinny or Jill for that matter but Ruth is okay I guess but why she never got round to snogging peter I'll never understand!
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Post by zoe on Oct 5, 2009 19:47:18 GMT 1
I must get round to buying fly by night (I've had the team for ages and not read it).
Marmite?? Yummy!!
black miget gems?? euww!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 20:07:40 GMT 1
I've just had to google black midget gems as I've never heard of them So I gather they are yukky then....... ;D
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Post by Claire on Oct 5, 2009 21:01:14 GMT 1
I hate black midget gems too. If you hate em you always get packets with loads in and vice versa!
I think we should have a pony book character face off for a bit of a giggle.
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Post by kunuma on Oct 5, 2009 21:04:20 GMT 1
I've just had to google black midget gems as I've never heard of them So I gather they are yukky then....... ;D LOL I had to google them too, I thought they must be a fashion accessory at first!
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Post by Claire on Oct 5, 2009 21:07:52 GMT 1
Can't believe you lot haven't heard of midget gems!
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Post by kunuma on Oct 5, 2009 21:10:39 GMT 1
So is it to be headcollars at 30 paces then between Jinny and Ruth?? I wonder if which one you prefer is a deep and meaningful guide to your own character??? After all, looking at someone's bookshelves, (or lack of them) is reckoned to be quite a good way of judging the reader's character! Which thick as a plank footballer's missus was it that said she had never read a book?? Oh yes, that would be the not so posh Spice!!
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Post by bronwyn on Oct 5, 2009 22:51:44 GMT 1
Marmite? I think I tried it once ages ago as a child. Not really something Aussies go for. We're all about the vegemite. I have not read Fly-By-Night. My old university library has a copy of that as well as The Team, so I will probably read there rather than buying new copies...15 pounds a book for those Fidra paperbacks...a bit much. It's great to be getting these perspectives on Jinny and Patricia Leitch. Don't worry Claire, I feel quite at home among mad people. ;D
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Post by trixiepony on Oct 6, 2009 2:55:51 GMT 1
That's good to know bronwyn we can all be mad together. You have only had Marmite once?, but Marmite is Aussie bronwyn, its the first original yeast spread made but then Kellogg's made there Vegemite.
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