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Post by exmoorfan on Dec 16, 2008 22:10:24 GMT 1
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Post by darkhorse on Dec 31, 2008 16:24:33 GMT 1
Hi Claire, are we going to start the discussion soon?
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Post by Claire on Dec 31, 2008 18:35:36 GMT 1
Well I am ready. In fact with being ill I have read the lot! I'd be interested to hear from those who have read 6 ponies which of you read the 1st ed and which the reprints?
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Post by zoe on Dec 31, 2008 20:31:28 GMT 1
I read the re print of six ponies in fact have read all of the noel and henrys but not the pony club ones yet. I'm ready to start.
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Post by Claire on Dec 31, 2008 21:03:56 GMT 1
Zoe had you read them before? Sorry if you have already told me but can't remember What really struck me on this reading of Six Ponies (and it was possibly cos I read the 1st ed which went into a lot more detail about the characters of the children) was that most of the kids were in this first book pretty unlikeable. You sympathised with Noel and Susan was OK but some of the others.... June of course was the archetypal anti-pony book heroine, being a pot-hunter and someone who didnt think she needed teaching. But the others were pretty unpleasant too. John of course has the famous incident where he beats his pony and is selfish and bad tempered, Margaret and Evelyn Radcliffe aren't very pleasant, Jill is a whiny little brat and Richard is onbnoxious (even worse in the 1st ed) It says something that in the rest of the series the children became a lot more likeable and even people you would like to have for friends. I think it was JPTs intention to do this, and show that by learning how to look after and train ponies properly their characters would be improved too. But related to this, the book did have more darker elements than I had remembered (again this was more pronounced in the first edition) It wasnt as much a light-hearted romp as I may have thought upon reading it as a child. As an adult you get the messages JPT was trying to put across much more clearly. I know I may be lynched by purists but in my opinion the reprint was edited quite well. Yes, there was a lot missing and especially a lot about Richard's character in particular, but I also thought that there were a few waffly bits which were removed for the better, such as when they were having a discussion about various authors. Certainly the main important part of the story was still intact. But i must admit it is nice to have your fav books expanded and given a certain extra depth. I love Major Holbrooke who is my favourite adult character of all time. Also love his dialogue with his long suffering wife too. He manages to be a fount of all knowledge without becoming an insufferable know-it-all. I think it is the touch of humour which tinges his character that does it. I enjoy the constant phone calls he has with Mrs creswell throughout the series. In fact I think the adult characters are some of the best drawn out of all the pony books I have read - another fact which makes them pleasurable for adults to read.
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Post by haffyfan on Jan 5, 2009 20:01:45 GMT 1
**looking very smug** I have read them all (all first eds) over the last couple of months.
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Post by sarah on Jan 5, 2009 20:52:13 GMT 1
Oops - only read the first page so far - will get onto it when finished all school work!
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Post by Claire on Jan 6, 2009 3:07:56 GMT 1
Konstanze this is the thread for the discussion of Six Ponies. With K M Peytons series about Ruth, Peter and Jonanthan we had a separate thread for each book. I will do the same for these books unless people would rather I just had 2 threads, one for the Noel and H series and one for the other series. Let me know folks what you prefer, as you know this is a very democratic forum Anyone who has read can start discussing, the others can catch up.
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Post by Claire on Jan 6, 2009 23:17:33 GMT 1
Hi konstanze sorry no I didnt mean it like tha, it was just you were asking which thread we were going to discuss Six Ponies on, and I meant it was on this one itself...not a new one!
God forbid I should become one of those mods (some of you howrse players will know what I mean) who is always rebuking people and locking threads! And if I did no doubt someone would put me firmly in my place ;D
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Post by Claire on Jan 8, 2009 12:35:53 GMT 1
No probs konstanze The rest of you lot we need some input. Should I change this thread to the NOel and Henry series and discuss all the books together?
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Post by haffyfan on Jan 8, 2009 19:54:56 GMT 1
Has anyone managed to lure Konstanze into the addiction that goes by the name of Howrse yet?? Claire..you forgot about docking Karma wily nily
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Post by Claire on Jan 8, 2009 20:30:32 GMT 1
Has anyone managed to lure Konstanze into the addiction that goes by the name of Howrse yet?? Leading people astray is your territory haffyfan. Me and exmoorfan are constantly cursing you for our addiction. ;D
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Post by exmoorfan on Jan 8, 2009 22:20:03 GMT 1
;D ;D We certainly are claire.. Am thinking about therapy to get off it.. AND still haven't read six ponies .!!!! Am so tired at night.(my reading time) that can't get into it.. ( mind you after reading K.M Peyton am having trouble downgrading.)
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Post by fizz on Jan 9, 2009 18:56:46 GMT 1
When are we due to write our reviews for Six Ponies? We will have to be moving on to Pony Club Team soon! If any one lives in the Manchester area they have PBs of Radney Riding Club, Pony Cub Cup & Pony Club Challenge in the Sharston Book Depot, which is enormous, but only has a small Pony Section. The proprietor said *You do realise that you are in the Children's Section don't you?" Health & safety hasn't been invented in this place!
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Post by konstanze on Jan 9, 2009 19:33:26 GMT 1
Sounds a great place, fizz. Did you give them a tongue lashing for assuming that pony books are just for children?
See, Claire, I'm not the only one mentioning Six Ponies (only because I've just read it, of course).
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Post by Claire on Jan 9, 2009 21:13:16 GMT 1
Fizz I did start discussing it but somehow we have all got sidetracked into other things as usual! Go back to the previous page if you want to see what I wrote about it. Ok folks going to do an impression of a howrse mod now. PLEASE get back to the Six Ponies discussion! (I know I am as guilty as the rest of you but I draw the line at moderating myself!) If you have read it feel free to add your comments now. If you haven't you can catch up later. Also please evryone let me know if you want me to change the thread to the Noel and Henry series. I need to know before I put the poll up. Whew, will have to lie down after that dose of self-assertiveness....
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Post by Claire on Jan 10, 2009 13:14:18 GMT 1
Konstanze I replied to your question about howrse on the other thread where you asked it (Giving it up) - and now that is the last mention of it I here!!! ;D
zoe, fizz, darkhorse you have all read it now: any comments to add? Kunuma did you manage to get round to reading the 1st ed?
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Post by zoe on Jan 10, 2009 18:04:20 GMT 1
I have been putting this off as I have realised, as much as I love reading, I find it hard to say why I like a book but the new fierce Claire has scared me into commenting. (haha)
I really enjoyed six ponies, I didn't read it as a kid so it is a new one for me. One of my favorite bits is when Noel ties up Topsy with a stirrup leather who then escapes and creates havoc as none of the kids can catch her until Major Holbrooke steps in. It is just so believable and I could imagine it happening so easily. Of course (being the herorine) I liked Noel but sometimes felt like giving her a swift kick for being pathetic although I enjoyed the way she workrd herself up to ask the major for Romany. Other characters that grated were June for most things she did and I thought John was quite shocking with his temper and wasn't a very nice boy. I'm not sure if I have already forgotten bits of the book but there didn't seem to be very much about Richard (I think Claire said there was more about him in the 1st ed) but he didn't seem very keen on horses to me at all.
I think if I had read this book as a kid it would have made me run to the field and do some schooling as it inspires me to do that now. I think the riding instruction was subtle and although it doesn't feel like you are reading a manual the story conveys a lot of information.
I hope this makes some sense (I accidentaly managed to delete half of it while still typing!) and look forward to everyone elses opinions.
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Post by Claire on Jan 10, 2009 20:37:24 GMT 1
I like the character of Noel. May have something to do with the fact that I was a bit like her as a child (before I became so fierce ;D ) quite shy and very dithery. I was exactly like her when having to do school movements and always ended up going the wrong way. In fact Im still like that when driving ;D I do think she was a realistic character and yes zoe I also like the bit where she is goaded into going and asking the Major for Romany by Richards sarky comments. Then when she gets nearer the place she finds her courage draining away. One of my fav bits in the book and very realistic. I think Jo was pretty good with characters in general.
As I said in my earlier post the book seemed a lot darker than I had remembered, altho maybe cos I was reading the 1st ed. (altho even the reprint has shocking moments such as John beating his pony) Some of the awful characters do get better in the later books, even June, but the real anti-hero of Six Ponies (full edition) wasnt June but Richard who seemed almost irredeemable. It is interesting that the other books in the series are a lot lighter in tone and Richard completely disappears. Also as you have rightly pointed out there wasnt so much of him in the later editions. I think this may have been because his character and its sub plot were considered just too dark by the publishers and this would explain the cutting of his character and the subsequent lightening of the tone of the books.
I also agree with you on the instructional element. Being of the nerdy persuasion I was also very interested in this part of the story. It gets even more prevalent in Pony Club Team and One Day Event, and you are right zoe it makes you want to grab a pony and practice a turn on the haunches or whatever! The PTs were amongst the first writers to have instruction in their pony books, especially JPT, and I still think she managed it better than any others. If anyone can think of any authors who included such a lot of it before this let me know!
BTW for all who havent read the first edition and are wondering more about Richard, the main difference - apart from the incident where he is rescued by Mrs C - is when the major has a conversation with Richard after his failure with Rufus in the show which is abruptly cut off in the reprint. It is very dark in tone especially the last bit where we find that Richard is trying desperately to convince himself he is not the horrible person which other people see him as.
EDIT - Have added poll
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Post by haffyfan on Jan 10, 2009 21:50:41 GMT 1
One thing that struck me after reading the first edition (after growing up with an edited Swift set of these) was how different some of the characters actually are when you read the full unabridged copy. The abridgements really do make all the difference to some characters personalities and even roles with the stories. For eg suddenly Mrs radcliffe wasn't a stay at home mum (as I imagined) but had her own business (hope I am remembering that bit correctly now as it was a while back i read it now) and the biggest shocker for me was Mrs Cresswell. The edited editions always portrayed her as ghastly typically pushy PC mum (abeit an extremely over bearing and especially unpleasant one) but then you suddenly get a scene involving the deporlable Richard (an even more gruesome little boy than I ahd imagined) and a runaway pony where she becomes very human (and went up in my esteem no end)...left me very confused over what I actually thought of her as a character after that.
I agree one thing I love about Josephines pony club books (woodbury too) is the instructional element, she blends it in with the text with such ease and although at times it is not much different to reading an equitation manuel you don't seem to notice as it flows along and proves an integeral part of the story. I also noticed that the theory actually goes in and stays in much easier than it would reading the manuel too.
The characters in this are lovely too, a real mixture, the only one I find a little farfetched is Susan...I think someone with her family/upbringing would be far more affected than how she is portrayed in reality (?), I actually like John's character...I think he was used to display that kindness and patience are always the key with horses and he was very humble regarding his unforgiveable mistake. I also like her Equine characters as she always gives them personality and provides the reader with enough info so as to visualise the pony (I especially loved as a child the biographies of ponies and riders found in the front of woodbury books), the only thing I find annoying (as in most pony books to be honest) is the vast majority of the ponies although not described as star performers will fly round 3ft 6 courses with ease (given time even the Stardusts do this)...whereas (unless it's just me and the ones I've ridden over the years) in real life not every pony out there is capable of this reagrdless of the schooling put in, it is just beyond there capabilities/comfort zone.
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Post by fizz on Jan 11, 2009 12:34:09 GMT 1
I firstly need to add that iIhaven't read the unabridged version of this book. I read the one with the skewbald on the cover when I was about 13 and a later version a month or so ago. My main memory of reading it at 13 was the disclaimer about riding hats in the front, which the friend, who lent me the book at the time, pointed out. When I re read it recently I remembered very little; though I do remember June rushing her schooling, maybe my friend & I discussed this, as we had our own ponies. I have extensively read all the others in the series so it was odd to re read this first one, where some of the characters are being established. One of my main observations was John's character. He is portrayed as a good, solid sort of guy in the later books. someone very dependable. though Mrs Holbrooke does refer to him as "always having had a hot temper" in Pony Club Team. It's good that he is shown to have learned and developed from his experiences schooling Jet. Also June is portrayed as being a more advanced and good rider, in the later books she is a vehicle for criticism of "Show Style " riding, with her legs forward and hands in her chest. I read Claire's scan on this thread about Richard . It does show some embarrassment, that he was unable to mention to his sister what Holbrooke had said. He does get mentioned in a later book, there is a reference to people having been to his party. In the later books Christopher gradually takes on the mantle of the bad boorish character (and Eric in Radney Riding Club), but more of them later. I have always thought of Major Holbrooke as some one in his 60s, but he might be a bit younger, even mid to late 40s. His son's appear to be at University. I love the bit where one of the Radcliffe's talk about the son's accident that holds up the schooling sessions. It is so well observed, I can almost imagine having said it myself at her age!
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Post by Claire on Jan 11, 2009 14:36:22 GMT 1
It is interesting what you say fizz about Christopher taking on the mantle of conceited boorish character from Richard. And Eric in Radney. Along with June, there was always this sort of character in the books. I think the main message of the book and the series in general was that willingness to learn and do the right thing is more important than show-ring success, money, etc. This of course goes against the constant criticism of pony books as elitist. Noel, the poorest character who doesn't know much and cant even afford a riding mac, triumphs because she is willing to learn. Whereas June and Richard who both seem well off and are both know-it-all types fail miserably.
But it goes even further than riding alone, with JPT saying that if your character faults can be faced and conquered you will become a better person. Thus John, although in some ways worse than Richard as he beats his pony, learns to become gentler, and eventually becomes a likeable dependable character in the later books. (I see to remember his mother saying something about him being quieter and better with the animals and his father says it is due to his school - but we know the real reason!) Noel also conquers her overwhelming shyness and inferiority complex to ask for Romany. Richard on the other hand ignores the many criticisms of his character and pushes them into a corner of his mind, a corner which according to the author is getting increasingly full. The major says to him that if he faces up to his faults "don't despair of becoming a likeable character, you will have begun to improve from that moment." (This is all in the 1st ed extract)
What I find very dark about it is that Richard refuses to accept this and there is a suggestion that one day it will all become too much for him and he will suffer some sort of nervous breakdown:
"The corner [of his mind] was getting rather full... and one day there might not be any more room. The last remark would break the camel's back and a torrent of abuse would pour into Richard's system." PHEW! That is heavy stuff for a pony book!
This is what I found extremely unsettling about the 1st edition and has led me to believe that it was considered too depressing for a childrens book and so Richard was turned from one of the main characters to a slightly less important character and June was portrayed as the main anti-hero. Its quite interesting as darkhorse jokingly said before reading the 1st ed that June may have been a nice character in the 1st ed and turned into a baddy for the reprint. Well not quite that far but she was forced into being the villian of the piece. Certainly I saw her as such in reading the pb editions as a child, whereas in the original book it was Richard.
Hmm its amazing how much more you see in a children's book as an adult. One good argument against people who laugh at us for reading kids books! But I don't see what is so odd about it, after all (with some exceptions) they were written by adults so will on some level communicate to adults too, perhaps even more than to children. We are adults now but have experienced being children too so looking at them from both perspectives, we are bound to see more in the books, or at least the well-written, deeper ones. OMG a getting a bit philosophical now so will shut up before disappearing up my own you-know-where! ;D
Just one last point. Haffy I didnt notice what you said about Mrs Cresswell I will read that bit again and see what i think.
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Post by zoe on Jan 11, 2009 18:47:16 GMT 1
the only thing I find annoying (as in most pony books to be honest) is the vast majority of the ponies although not described as star performers will fly round 3ft 6 courses with ease I've always thought this too and wondered at the kids in pony books having a practice jumping course set at 3ft 6 with the odd 4 footer thrown in. As a kid jumping about 2 ft I felt a bit hopeless!
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Post by darkhorse on Jan 11, 2009 19:01:23 GMT 1
I read about half the paperback before getting the 1st ed copy which I have also read. Reading the two together like that made me realise how much was missed out in the paperback. I wonder what was missed in the other books in the series? I would love to read them too....anyone got them? I agree wth a lot that has been said but like konstanze says there is only so far you can go with agrreement ;D I don't find the book as funny as the later ones, although it still has it's light moments. I think the chararcters are believeable and not as stereotyped as in some pony books. There are good and bad in most of them. June is maybe the only two dimensional character and even she turns out better later on in the series. I loved it as a child and I still love it. Have voted excellent!
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Post by Claire on Jan 11, 2009 22:16:41 GMT 1
Sorry folks if I have gone on a bit. Its my background in English lit Sometimes I get a bit carried away and as I said before in danger of disappearing up my own 'feliz anos' (you will know what i mean if you have read the howrse thread)
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Post by Claire on Jan 14, 2009 18:11:17 GMT 1
Am starting the thread for Pony Club Team. However if anyone still has comments to make on Six Ponies feel free to continue posting here too.
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Post by kunuma on Jan 15, 2009 19:15:48 GMT 1
I've been madly trying to read the original, I was mortified to find that I had read an abridged version for all these years! As Reader's Digest is my idea of literary hell, that is rather embarrassing! Was it just Six Ponies that suffered this indignity - or are there other ones from this series like that??
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Post by haffyfan on Jan 15, 2009 20:24:58 GMT 1
yes but far less so. Funny parrot incident in Team though that got cut!
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Post by Buster on Jan 15, 2009 22:55:46 GMT 1
Ok well firstly i'll say I loved the book! It was pretty much what a sterotypical pony book in my opinion should be (which is a good thing!). I also loved how it gave schooling instructions, because it reassured me that the writer had some clue about what she was on about. At the start I was slightly appalled at the childrens lack of knowlage and riding ability, but it was great to see them progress. I also thought it was kinda crazy giving inexperienced children unschooled ponies to break in (!!) and the outcome was pretty unbelievable, for the amount of knowlage they had in the first book. However, I dont feel the book needed to stick to the facts exactly, it was a perfect book on its own. Noel is a sweet charecter, although im now on the 3rd book, and this 'needle' thing is starting to bug me! I also though the twin, I forget her name, but not Evelyn, was a good charecter too. Like Haffyfan said, it does bug me that in these books ponys are all jumping 4ft! Its insane... either todays ponys have gone down a lot since then, or the authors ponies were amazing.. probaly the latter. Saying that, the highest I have jumped (on a 13.2) is 4ft, but I consider him to be a amazing jumper, and its not something I would do every day for fear of injuring him! Nowadays pony classes, at regular shows, only go up to 1.05m which is about 3ft3? And from my experience its usualy just a few 14.2's (and me ). So I think that prehaps the average rider, as these people seem to be should be be jumping this hight. At Pony Club today the jumps in the top ground start as a pole on the floor, and get to 2.ft6 if we are lucky. I kid you not. This is because 'thats the hight team showjumping goes too for 13.2's'. Sorry had to get that off my chest. It makes me feel inadequate when 8 year olds are flying round 5ft courses on shetlands But yes, I realy enjoyed the book, it introduced the series well, although I prefer the others so far... but thats for a different post! x
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Post by kunuma on Jan 17, 2009 19:39:12 GMT 1
Yes, I'd agree about the amazingly talented horses and ponies they all seemed to have, the odd no good one was usually quite a feature because of it's rarity! I also was very jealous of the fact that they all lived near enough to each other to ride together - somehow I never managed to live near to more than one at the most horse loving child, and then they often didn't have a horse! Plus as I got older I seemed to come unstuck in a different way, as I would have friends who seemed to be keen on horses, until I got them near one, and then the enthusiasm waned! I so wanted to live near Folly Court!
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