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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 20:23:36 GMT 1
What sounds revolting about waffles? Not really heard the term butter syrup but presumably just regular maple syrup with butter?? And bacon is a traditional breakfast meat here. I'm sure they meant on the side. Sorry Rally a typo on my part (really messing up today *sigh*!) Should be a comma in-between syrup and butter. However I'm sure the bacon was included with the waffle itself as the next line says "Personally, I like them better without the bacon, which I didn't think mixed well with the syrup" It brought to mind people who eat Jam and Marmite sandwiches, or other weird concoctions. Bleuuuu!
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Post by susanb on Dec 12, 2014 21:06:40 GMT 1
The kindle edition says Phantom is mostly TB with a touch of Arab...which perplexed me, because it also says that the original owner had been planning to race him....no idea where, outside of a county fair, since the US Jockey Club will no more register a mixed breed than it's UK counterpart will. Re the waffles, syrup and bacon...I did read that to mean that the syrup was going on the bacon and had the same reaction Rosie did...yech! On the side would be ok. Well, preferably on a separate plate, so there would be no chance of the syrup touching the bacon
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Post by haffyfan on Dec 12, 2014 22:11:05 GMT 1
The kindle edition says Phantom is mostly TB with a touch of Arab...which perplexed me, because it also says that the original owner had been planning to race him....no idea where, outside of a county fair, since the US Jockey Club will no more register a mixed breed than it's UK counterpart will. Re the waffles, syrup and bacon...I did read that to mean that the syrup was going on the bacon and had the same reaction Rosie did...yech! On the side would be ok. Well, preferably on a separate plate, so there would be no chance of the syrup touching the bacon Thats where i had drawn my QH conclusion from. I also had the same reaction to the waffle/bacon thing - and not just because i don't eat meat! What are your waffles made from - i assume they are not the potato waffles I'm picturing (as in waffly versatile) or are they?
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Post by fizz on Dec 12, 2014 23:51:46 GMT 1
My Dad served in the RAF during the war and one of his oft repeated stories was about when he landed at an American base. He went to have breakfast and there were huge quantities of good bacon and eggs, rare in the UK due to rationing. As the hungry young Yorkshireman proceeded along the servery he was horrified to have peaches and maple syrup added to his plate....!!!! Perhaps CPD was similarly shocked!
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 13, 2014 0:07:34 GMT 1
The kindle edition says Phantom is mostly TB with a touch of Arab...which perplexed me, because it also says that the original owner had been planning to race him....no idea where, outside of a county fair, since the US Jockey C2lub will no more register a mixed breed than it's UK counterpart will. Re the waffles, syrup and bacon...I did read that to mean that the syrup was going on the bacon and had the same reaction Rosie did...yech! On the side would be ok. Well, preferably on a separate plate, so there would be no chance of the syrup touching the bacon Now this is where the Americans on the site are going to have to do more translation!!! The paperback version says that he was a full-bred with a touch of Arab" Now is full bred an American term for purebred? Or is it what Americans call Thoroughbreds?? If the former calling him a purebred with a touch of something else is like saying someone is only a little bit pregnant!! If the latter - like you say, nope he wouldn't be able to race being an AngloArab. BUT they do race Quarter horses don't they - so I always though he was meant to be mostly Quarter Horse with a touch of Arab, hence he could be a palomino which he couldn't be as an AngloArab. The question is - do Virginians call quarter horses full breds?? OR did CPT stay with folk over there who did??
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Post by susanb on Dec 13, 2014 0:17:09 GMT 1
lol....kunuma, you Brits are going to have to do the translating...remember this author is English, not American! In the US a purebred is a purebred....nothing other than whatever the breed itself...whether it's a purebred Irish Setter or a purebred Arabian! And a Thoroughbred is nothing but Thoroughbred...the US Jockey Club wouldn't register anything with "a touch of Arab", so the Phantom wouldn't have been eligible to race on any TB track.
There are also organizations that race both Quarter Horses and Arabians...I don't know about the racing eligibility requirements for them, but I believe that Arabians have to be purebred to even be considered Arabians, the Quarter Horse definitions are a bit looser, but I think to be considered a Quarter Horse a horse would have to have SOME Quarter Horse blood...I can't believe Thoroughbred with a touch of Arab would cut it!
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Post by susanb on Dec 13, 2014 0:21:27 GMT 1
And for Haffy....here's a waffle, American style allrecipes.com/recipe/waffles-i/no potato involved, and it does indeed go well with maple syrup. But bacon and maple syrup....yuck. There are people who will eat anything though....these are all breakfast foods, and it's possible CPT observed some nutcase pouring maple syrup over the whole lot and assumed that it was an American thing, when it was really limited to that one person (or maybe the family she stayed with, if the nuts didn't fall far from the tree )
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Post by Claire on Dec 13, 2014 0:22:04 GMT 1
Wow you've all been busy, up to page 2 and no-one has even finished the book yet! I haven't even started as going to my parents for the weekend to visit my poorly mum and didnt want to pack the heavier ardback edition pity cos I am feeling left out now!
I'd heard of whippy saddles and bobby-soxers but not petal cut. I also find the thought of waffles and bacon disgusting! You can buy American style waffles here - you can put them in the toaster!
I do find updating books to fit in with the present day ridiculous, even more so than editing to cut number of pages. Why can't kids be given a chance to read about what past times were like? I read loads of books written in the 50s and 60s in the 70s and early 80s when I was a child and if anything I found stuff like old money and the backward seat, etc quite fascinating. Why do editors think children of today have to be spoon fed. Think what fun they could have googling bobby sox and petal cuts lol. Classic childrens books such as The Secret Garden, Swallows and Amazons, the Narnia books, etc, aren't updated to be set in the modern age so why do they do it with pony books? Anyway better get off my soap box and back to the book itself!
There is a new paperback edition of the Phantom Horse books out so I assume the kindle will be the same as that? I checked up the publisher and it is actually Award, which published the hardback editions in the 80s or 90s.
I think I always assumed Phantom was a quarter horse partly because of his colour, partly because they have quarter horse racing in the US.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 7:53:46 GMT 1
Ugh! not peaches as well! Well said Claire completely agree!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 8:01:09 GMT 1
Another thing puzzling me. I've no idea on the breed of Phantom. Not well up on that side of things but the description of Frances's colouring (one of the horses lent to Jean and Angus) sounds a bit odd to me. One minute described as "...a nicely marked skewbald.." and later as "...the spotted mare's lazy..." I thought a spotted horse was just that, spotted! And a skewbald has patches of chestnut/brown all over it with no spots.
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Post by Claire on Dec 13, 2014 12:07:02 GMT 1
I have a feeling that Americans call skewbalds spotted, I'm sure I have read American pony books in which the spotted horse was actually a skew - could be wrong tho!
I think we'll have to allow poetic licence for someone attempting to race a non-pure TB, after all the Black Stallion series had a supposedly pure bred Arab racing in all the top US flat races!!!
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Post by haffyfan on Dec 13, 2014 15:17:44 GMT 1
See what interesting discussions it's bring up without having to finish or talk about the book proper!
I think full bred (also def 'clean' bred) is an old term for TB's. The old guy who use to deliver my hay was initially shocked Murph lived out as he once commented but he's clean breed. (He's technically 3/4 bred which is commonly used for a 3/4 tb hence i assume full bred would be a pure?)
Thanks for the waffle link Susan - i can now see the maple syrup bit but the bacon is still gross.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:32:13 GMT 1
I have a feeling that Americans call skewbalds spotted, I'm sure I have read American pony books in which the spotted horse was actually a skew - could be wrong tho! I haven't read many American pony books, you could well be right! Susan? Rally?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:36:46 GMT 1
See what interesting discussions it's bring up without having to finish or talk about the book proper! And I've got another question This one is for Claire (or anyone else who knows the answer!) as I know you've read both the first edition and the Armada. Are the illustrations the same in both editions? They aren't credited to anyone in the Armada but they look awfully like Sheila Rose.
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Post by Claire on Dec 13, 2014 20:28:43 GMT 1
See what interesting discussions it's bring up without having to finish or talk about the book proper! And I've got another question This one is for Claire (or anyone else who knows the answer!) as I know you've read both the first edition and the Armada. Are the illustrations the same in both editions? They aren't credited to anyone in the Armada but they look awfully like Sheila Rose. Yes the first edition was illustrated by Sheila Rose and also in the Armada. One good thing about the Armadas even if they were revised at least they kept the original illustrations - tho some of the Armadas didn't have all the illustrations (Six Ponies is one example that springs to mind). I'll have to check the Seagullk edition and the Award hardback for illustrations when I get back home. The Award ones usually have a different illustrator or none.
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Post by rallycairn on Dec 14, 2014 0:19:47 GMT 1
Spotted usually means like an App or a Knabstrupper - usually. Maybe for younger readers or more in a poetic way, like CW Anderson with Blaze and the "grey spotted pony" being dapple grey, but those books are for younger readers and I think the desire was to be winsome or cute.
Usually pinto or paint is used, though very occasionally you see piebald or skewbald.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 7:52:16 GMT 1
Thanks Claire, pity they forgot to credit her in the Armarda! I'm glad they kept those illustrations in though, they are lovely.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 7:56:23 GMT 1
Spotted usually means like an App or a Knabstrupper - usually. Maybe for younger readers or more in a poetic way, like CW Anderson with Blaze and the "grey spotted pony" being dapple grey, but those books are for younger readers and I think the desire was to be winsome or cute. Usually pinto or paint is used, though very occasionally you see piebald or skewbald. Thanks Rally. Mmmm. Maybe it was a mistake on CPT's part then? Or perhaps I'm just being a bit picky lol Talking of mistakes there are an awful lot of typos! Especially full stops where there should be commas
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 14, 2014 14:06:04 GMT 1
Have to say as another veggie I do not want bits of a dead pig on my waffles either! However on the colour descriptions I remember being very confused by Baldy, the chestnut with a bald face in Horse in the House - for years I thought he must have had ringworm!! Now back to breeds (obsessed, moi??) I see that Easter is said to be part cow pony - OK so that means he is a Quarter Horse cross, Francis we've decided is a paint - now what about the poor unnamed bay mare? Plus at one time someone is said to be riding a work horse - a heavy horse???
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Post by susanb on Dec 14, 2014 14:39:05 GMT 1
Not really, a cow pony is just a type of horse suited to herding cattle, and is actually used for doing so....just as a hunter isn't an actual breed, just a type.
Possible....though a work horse could be any kind of horse used for general work (plow horse, pulling a delivery wagon, etc), rather than for riding or as a carriage horse. In the US, what you'd call a "heavy horse" breed, we'd more likely call a "draft horse".
But again, we're all talking as if this book was written by an American, which it wasn't....what you're getting here is America through a British lens. And remember also: CPT stayed at a particular place, at a particular time, with particular people and took what she saw and heard to be what "Americans" do and say rather than what it was....a certain group of people in a certain time in a certain place/region of America.
This isn't to take CPT to task for any of it....this is a pony book, not a sociological study! And the book is SUPPOSED to be about an English family seeing America for the first time, in Virginia, in the mid 50s!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 18:00:05 GMT 1
Which is why we are asking lots of questions in the hope someone might be able to unravel what is CPT's idea of "American" and what isn't! I'm enjoying this discussion so far. So glad we didn't do the Jackie book, I think it would have been very dull if we had! This book has given us something to get our teeth into. Kunuma The way I read it, the work horse was just a description of what the horse does rather than a breed. Looks like I got that right at least
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Post by Claire on Dec 15, 2014 0:53:19 GMT 1
I know what you are saying Susan. We tend to lump things into 2 categories - UK and USA - but America is such a huge country there could be many variations of terminology, phrases, customs etc, rather than just 'is this how Americans say it' or whatever. Even in our tiny country we have huge differences in names for things from county to county.
It might be quite interesting to compare this book to CPT's Riders From Afar which had the opposite scenario of Americans staying in the UK and having the culture shock lol.
Rosie - I agree with you re. Jackie, even tho I quite like the Jackie books there isn't a lot of scope for discussion in them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 7:06:03 GMT 1
I didn't understand this sentence at all. "....lunched quickly off hot dogs in a soda fountain..." so a quick google revealed its a restaurant and still going strong in 50s style. Looks a great place Riders from afar is quite irritating lol but see what you mean re variations from place to place etc.
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Post by tintin on Dec 15, 2014 13:35:40 GMT 1
People are unfamiliar with Whippy the saddlery firm
I suddenly feel even older...
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Post by tintin on Dec 15, 2014 13:40:28 GMT 1
PS I am writing a Christmas story - any suggestions where to post it?
I have not had much of a year, work is silly and my mother has been very ill which was quite demanding. All the IT has been rebelling and my heart has been, if not broken then at least side swiped by a large vehicle...
Mother is almost totally completely her normal self now so this year may be the year to finish the book.
I know a lot of you have had their troubles too, so best wishes for a happy christmas and a much better 2015
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Post by kunuma1 on Dec 15, 2014 14:36:38 GMT 1
lol Well another quandary - the moonshiner!! Now I know about the time when alcohol was illegal thanks to watching The Waltons (the Baldwin sisters and their recipe!) but I had no idea it was still like that in the fifties! Did chuckle that the heroine wanted to call the police but the hosts didn't - as their father bought his whisky from the chap!!
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Post by tintin on Dec 15, 2014 14:55:12 GMT 1
There are still dry counties in some states (at least there were in the 70's/80's),or counties with very restricted legal range of alcohol. Also each of the states can set different taxes so evading duty and moving alcohol from a low to a high duty state are still potentially remunerative (also with tobacco)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 19:18:01 GMT 1
tintin good luck with the story, and like you I hope 2015 will be a better year for all of us who've had rubbish times in 2014. Kunuma re moonshine that made me chuckle too I've been doing more googling. Never heard of a Cardinal, what a lovely bird, very vivid red! Bit like our finches with that chunky beak. Our British family seem to administer Asprin for all ailments, they even thought about giving it to a horse who was pining for his friend! I like the idea that they only put the decorations up when the kids had gone to bed Christmas eve. Would make it more special I would think. Not like nowadays when it starts in September more or less and everyone is sick of it by the time Christmas arrives.
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Post by Claire on Dec 15, 2014 19:47:55 GMT 1
Back home so I'm going to grab the book and catch up with everyone! Tintin I am about to set up a Christmas section and put on a few festive quizzes and things. You can post your story there. Sorry to hear you have had a bad year. What is it about 2014? Its been terrible for so many people I know. For me its probably been the worst year of my life! My mum has been in the wars too. Glad your Mum is getting better and hope that for you and others who have had a bad year, 2015 is much better.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 6:51:57 GMT 1
I've finished now. Does anyone want me to post Claire's book onto them?
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