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Post by susanb on Nov 7, 2014 21:12:56 GMT 1
and yes to this too! And I'll add one more bit....after she'd seen the ghost horse, her own pony wasn't good enough for her either! The ghost horse was just so much more awesome! Her pony was ok, but only in how she helps the little witch (well, I guess it WAS a Halloween book ) bond with the Phantom Horse. And in the end, what is the poor pony relegated to....a vessel to deliver the awesomeness that is the reincarnated phantom horse. Bleh.
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Post by Claire on Nov 9, 2014 14:58:41 GMT 1
Oh goody this seems to be one of those love or hate books. I don't think forgiveness per se was the main theme of the book and personally I wouldn't have forgiven Mr. Hansen either. That was horrendous. It was more about the destructiveness of hate. The horse wasn't meant to be forgiving Mr Hansen but showing that she didnt have to hate all human beings. As we all know most if not all so called 'rogue' horses have been made that way by humans, in this case this trait was continuing after death. It was when Freedom connected with a more loving and caring human that she had a chance to show her true nature. Anyway thats my take on the book. Oops will have to continue with this later - just realised i am late lol.
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Post by susanb on Nov 9, 2014 17:33:53 GMT 1
Oh goody this seems to be one of those love or hate books.
I was thinking the same thing....but then I was afraid I'd scared everyone off
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Post by Claire on Nov 9, 2014 19:33:25 GMT 1
Lol haffy I think it was probably a given you wouldn't like it if I did! I seem to remember you read another Angela Dorsey book and didnt like it either. I'd almost managed to blot it out! It was abandoned and come to think of it i think there was a whole barn full of bones in that one... Bit of a theme here? Haha I liked Abandoned too! Ok I fess up one of the reasons I picked this book was that I thought it might be controversial and good for discussion. but not necessarily for some of the things people are criticizing! and yes to this too! And I'll add one more bit....after she'd seen the ghost horse, her own pony wasn't good enough for her either! The ghost horse was just so much more awesome! Her pony was ok, but only in how she helps the little witch (well, I guess it WAS a Halloween book ) bond with the Phantom Horse. And in the end, what is the poor pony relegated to....a vessel to deliver the awesomeness that is the reincarnated phantom horse. Bleh. I really didnt get this vibe at all from the book and I am surprised at the vitriol it has inspired. I thought it perfectly natural than a young girl would be upset about leaving her best friend behind and the stables where she was comfortable for an unknown quantity. I've heard that some people actually do like human beings as well as animals lol. (When i was a kid i loved my best friend as much as my ponies and would have been devastated to lose her.) On the contrary I actually thought Jani was quite mature about the move compared to a lot of characters in books with a similar plot. She was upset but she wasn't having tantrums and moaning about everything, and she actually empathised with her parents and tried not to let them see she was upset. And I don't know how anyone could accuse her of not loving her pony. As for tying her up outside a house that is just nitpicking, the kids in the old pony books were always doing that. I've done it myself as a kid and probably worse - so stone me! I really thought Jani was a sympathetic character. Nor did I agree that she lost interest in Keeta after meeting Freedom. Obviously she was dazzled by the ghost horse's beauty but I don't think she saw her as a replacement for Keeta. Surely you can have more than one horse and love them all equally? I must admit I wasn't really happy with the whole immaculate conception/reincarnation type thing. If Freedom had to come back (and as this was the first in a series I suppose she had to) I would rather she had just reappeared as a more friendly ghost horse. Rally please come on and stand in my corner - I'm fighting the battle alone here!
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Post by brumby on Nov 9, 2014 21:44:31 GMT 1
Claire, thank you for choosing this book the discussion has been highly entertaining. Firstly I read the newer version, which I must say has a great cover! I am assuming the beginning has been changed as it has no mention of 6mth weaned foals and begins in the car on the way to the new house. Claire agree with your last post, perfectly normal for a young girl to be upset about leaving her friends, stable life and the other ponies in the stable behind, her world would have been turned upside-down. Yes she did have her own pony now, but initially no one to ride with, a new school to face, I think some of you are being a bit tough on Jani. I thought she was a very pleasant character and loved and did the best for Keeta. With regard to the Freedom being tangible and Jani being able to touch her, initially I thought this is different but then where are the rules for what a ghost has to be like? I had no issues with this. In fact my favourite part of the book is the atmosphere and tension that Dorsey creates in the barn, I loved the way the darkness swirled around and Freedom emerged⦠Interesting my version of the book has a quote on the back cover from 'Northword Magazine' that says the book is really about the power of forgiveness.. I thought more about the power of trust and love! My biggest issue with the book is the ending seems hurried, the story seems to have reached its conclusion, Freedom has been released then oops sequel coming how can we get Freedom back in the story? I thought it was clumsy and could have been better thought out. Although if I can find a cheap copy of Echo, I will read it (already have Whisper) I have given this book a GOOD, ending spoiled it a little and the fact that its for juvenile readers i.e. 6 -12 year olds, I often find these stories for younger reader a bit light on. Claire, do you know were the other two books in the series ever published by Enchanted pony books, can't find any for sale? Anyway will now sit back and enjoy the discussion...
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Post by Claire on Nov 9, 2014 22:19:27 GMT 1
Thanks brumby for some support lol. I agree with you that the author does a good job of building up the atmosphere and tension. I liked that part of it too. All 3 of the books were published by Enchanted Pony Books but the other two lost the Freedom from title and were just called Echo and Whisper. See link below: ponybooks.com/catalogue/freedom-series/Anyone who enjoyed this book will also like Abandoned (also reprinted by Enchanted Pony Books) And yes the Kindle version is different. It does not start with Jani at her old home but driving to her new one. Not sure if it has been changed in any other way. Will try and find out from the publishers or author.
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 10, 2014 15:29:29 GMT 1
Ha, Ha, Round Three!! No, no Claire, ponymad means pony comes first!! All I can remember about being that age is not wanting to be anywhere or with anyone except ponies! I had friends at school but hated school so spent all my time trying not to be in school and be around ponies instead! (Strangely enough, many years later I discovered that the girl who had been my 'best friend' in school for all those years was actually not the person I thought she was as at all as an adult!) I guess too, the whole ghost thing upsets me in that Freedom had suffered so badly when she was alive at the hands of humans that in my world she would at least have had her freedom straight away when she was dead, not had to earn it by appeasing more humans! One thing though, I bet you are all stupendously grateful that I haven't started on the grey Welsh pony mated to a skewbald mare producing a black foal......................................
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Post by Claire on Nov 10, 2014 17:57:31 GMT 1
Ding next round lol. I dont think being ponymad means you can't have friends you love as well. Its like saying you can only love your pony not your dog or cat. Altho on the whole I prefer animals to the human race there are a few humans I love/have loved as much as my animals. Just about everything me and my best friend did was pony related. But doing pony stuff without her wouldn't have been so much fun. As for the genetics thing, well we don't actually know who the father was do we? (if there was one per se!) And I think when we are looking at the whole weird ghost horse comes back as a foal reincarnation/possible immaculate conception stuff, being the wrong colour is just a minor quibble!!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 10, 2014 18:40:26 GMT 1
Hmmm, reincarnation - is that meant to be the theme? Bit tough on the poor thing to come back as a horse that still lives in the same barn! So does the story continue in the other books?? Don't tell me she weans the poor little reincarnation at four months old......................................
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Post by Claire on Nov 10, 2014 22:24:35 GMT 1
I'm not sure whether its meant to be reincarnation or what. I dont know much about reincarnation but thought you weren't supposed to be able to remember your past life in your new incarnation...? Anyone read the others in the series I would be interested to find out more about the foal and if there's any answers to what actually happened!
By the way I don't want anyone to think just cos I like the book I condone weaning at 4 months old!
Just want to add that although a lot of us don't agree on the book at all I think we are all in agreement that Mr Hansen was the scariest most horrific character in any ghost story!!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 10, 2014 22:27:48 GMT 1
I'm not sure whether its meant to be reincarnation or what. I dont know much about reincarnation but thought you weren't supposed to be able to remember your past life in your new incarnation...? Anyone read the others in the series I would be interested to find out more about the foal and if there's any answers to what actually happened! By the way I don't want anyone to think just cos I like the book I condone weaning at 4 months old! Just want to add that although a lot of us don't agree on the book at all I think we are all in agreement that Mr Hansen was the scariest most horrific character in any ghost story!! Drat - we are all going to have to read the others as well now!! There had better not be any more digging up bodies.....................
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 10, 2014 22:30:04 GMT 1
Still wish I could remeber about the ghost horse on the island - the one that disappears when you get closer, mind you there were bones in that one too.
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Post by Claire on Nov 10, 2014 23:45:45 GMT 1
I wish you could too cos I'd like to read it!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 11, 2014 14:20:32 GMT 1
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 11, 2014 17:20:53 GMT 1
OMG I'm not mad after all (now, now I can hear that!!) - I've found the book! Well I haven't found the book but I have found a reference to it on Wiki!!! It's called The Rider on the White Horse, by Theodor Storm and was originally written in German. They say that it is
a "tremendous tale, with which Storm took his conception of the novella, as epic sister of drama, to unprecedented heights - it is arguably the greatest 19th century German novella".
It's certainly caused a lot of drama for me, I've been trying to find out what it was for flippin' years.
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Post by Claire on Nov 11, 2014 19:15:46 GMT 1
Well I am kicking myself. A 19th century novella translated from German - how did we all miss it..? Lol
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 11, 2014 19:17:51 GMT 1
Well I am kicking myself. A 19th century novella translated from German - how did we all miss it..? Lol Well just for that I nominate it for our next read!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 11, 2014 19:18:41 GMT 1
In German!!!
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Post by susanb on Nov 11, 2014 21:53:53 GMT 1
LOL...good luck with that! I already know my next book...I'm doing the Christmas read from 2011 (better late than never).....had some birthday money and splurged on a good copy of Black Hunting Whip, to replace the Collins Pony Library edition with the print that was too tiny to read!
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Post by darkhorse on Nov 12, 2014 16:15:04 GMT 1
Facinating discussion! I enjoyed the book. I read the Kindle edition which was quite short and didnt include anything about weaning etc so I will not enter into that part of the discussion. I liked the character of Jani and I don't agree that she didn't love her pony or look after it properly. I felt that the girls were doing their best to help Freedom escape and were quite caring and sympathetic compared to a lot of teenagers. It was a good ghost story and a good choice for Halloween.
I would give it a good rather than very good however because there were a few things that didn't like. I'm not sure if anyone has said this already but I thought that the spooky scary atmosphere which had been built up very well early on in the book was constantly being lost by the girls' non-stop joking and irreverant attitude. Not only that, but laughing as they dug up bones was a bit of an insult to the memory of the horse. I wasn't happy about Mr Hansen being let off the hook so easily either. I thought he should have been punished in some way but I suppose that is not really something for a rather moralistic children's book which was about forgiveness and not hating people. Lastly, like may other people on here, I wasn't too sure about the ending with Freedom's spirit somehow coming into the foal. It seemed a bit contrived and unexplained and just plain weird! I'd also like to read the next book in the series to see if it explained things better.
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Post by Claire on Nov 13, 2014 20:18:18 GMT 1
I know what you mean about the joking etc. The dialogue between the girls at times didnt match the spirit of the book which was quite dark and dealt with some quite serious themes. But perhaps the author was trying to lighten the mood and its possible that it was a sort of graveyard humour for the girls in an an attempt to hide their fear. Its funny, was just re-reading Stephen King's It where a bunch of kids are faced with some pretty horrific stuff and they joke a lot too but I never quite felt it worked completely in that book either.
Does anyone else want to borrow the book and join in? If so let me know soon and I will ask Kunuma to pass it on to whomever.
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Post by rallycairn on Nov 14, 2014 15:43:31 GMT 1
I stalled before the big climax due to horse commitments in real life (yay!) and I was not going to comment again til I finished ... sorry I went missing on the "pro" side for a bit. Claire said it well, though - I was kind of taken aback by the vitriol directed toward Jani. I really don't see her ignoring Keeta for Freedom, and I was watching for that as I read, after Susan mentioned it. And even though I myself would have been ecstatic to move to her new town and farmette as described in the book, I could sympathise with Jani having to leave Maria, her only longtime friend. The story made much of how all of Jani's other friends had moved away as soon as she got to know them, then she becomes the one moving away from Maria. I am a bit saddened that this type of loss is not seen by so many readers (about 40% of our sample, wasn't it?) as something that might be hard to cope with or as a reason to sympathise with Jani, even if one cannot empathise with her lack of desire for the move. I know plenty of adults who never want to quit boarding their horses because for them, a big part of it all is the social scene at the barn. Jani was losing that, plus her friend Maria. Although I can't imagine preferring a dreary apartment to a neat house with acreage and a small town and trails to ride around, moving and losing friends are big life events stressors. Not many of us coast serenely through such big events, even if we see them as positive, without some stress and adjustment. As Claire said, Jani tries to hide her disappointment and tells herself not to be negative about her parents realizing their dream. I thought she was very caring of others. Feelings are hard to control even for adults and even when we know there are upsides to a situation. Agree that things wrapped up kind of suddenly, though I have seen that in a lot of modern young adult books. Another thing - I have noticed Dorsey writes a lot of her books as taking place over one or two or three days - pretty much all the Horse Angel/ Horse Guardian books are that way, and the Whinnies on the Wind series as well. She seems to me to prefer that approach, of giving a close look at a few hours of time. As an author she seems stronger with stories paced like that - based on a weekend sleepover, or a short trip, and having the natural occurrence of events help pace the climax of the story. I did see Freedom's rebirth as some sort of spiritual event and thus did not look for an earthly sire, if you will. Am content to just not look too closely at it and leave it as a vague spiritual happening/ some type of non-specific reincarnation. For me the message was not so much forgiveness, but letting go of hate because of what hate does to you. Just a slightly different nuance. It is kind of a modern concept, I suppose, but I do think it has some validity. I am surprised that the bones brought out so many visceral reactions if only because we all deal or have dealt with so much as animal lovers - the gallons of pee, the mounds of manure, the abcesses in the hooves (and elsewhere), the nasty gouges and scrapes so many horses are prone to - for me bones are just one more part of the biology of living things and the daily and overall cycle of life. But it is very good to learn of others' reactions and something for me to remember. The Freedom books are not my favorite writings of Dorsey, but I still like them quite a lot. Hope someone else does decide to get the loaner book and join in. Also, if anyone reads the other two, let's get a review thread going, at least!
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 14, 2014 18:18:36 GMT 1
Wow -I'm genuinely amazed that anyone wants to keep their horse boarded out - for me it takes all the joy out of having a horse. With DIY livery the sad truth is that you can look after your horse as well as anything while you are there, but then you have to leave them - often totally unattended for hours on end, and horses being horses, that's when they choose to hurt themselves. With livery where they are at least checked, it still for me is an absolute anguish that I cannot rush out and put a rug on when it rains, go and say goodnight and check them last thing, see them first thing in the morning. Not to mention being totally dependent on the car to even see them at all! I can more easily understand people who would rather sell or pts their horse than have to keep them at livery. So I am gobsmacked that people would do it by choice! I understand that people like active social lives, but for me, riding is precious one on one time just for me and my horse! It is a trend I had noticed recently, with more and more horses kept that way, but always thought it was because having land to keep your horse at home nowadays requires millionaire level finances!
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Post by Claire on Nov 14, 2014 22:54:56 GMT 1
For me the message was not so much forgiveness, but letting go of hate because of what hate does to you. Just a slightly different nuance. It is kind of a modern concept, I suppose, but I do think it has some validity. Totally agree Rally. I think that hatred and jealousy are the two most destructive and useless emotions. Dorsey chose the title of her book well. I see it as not just a physical freedom for the ghost horse but a freedom from hatred for her and Mr. Hansen. In fact I agree with Rally on most points. Thanks for the back up Rally lol. At one point I thought I was going to be the only one who liked it! I find it interesting that the book has a very divided reaction and like Rally I am a little surprised at how much dislike Jani has evoked! She's hardly a June Creswell or a Susan Pyke! In fact I thought the parents were less thoughtful and caring than she was. After all they had uprooted their daughter from her friends and old life and then they totally ignored her while they spent their time concentrating on their new business rather than helping her to adjust. When she found a friend and a purpose in helping Freedom she soon realised she was lucky to have her own horse and somewhere to keep her close at hand. Kunuma I am sure that all of us would like to have our horses in a paddock or stable beside our house but sadly for most this is impossible. In fact when I was a child I didnt know anyone who kept their own horse anywhere other than at stables or at communal grazing. There is a difference between what we may call the ideal way to keep a horse and the reality. Unfortunately we have to make compromises between what we would like to do and what we have to do. As you know well. I don't think anyone is necessarily a bad owner if they can't keep their horse in the perfect ideal home and I don't believe most people have a choice when they board their horses. There will be a few who have horses as a social/status symbol thing but hopefully that is the minority.
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Post by kunuma1 on Nov 15, 2014 13:13:16 GMT 1
A marmite book!! Makes life more interesting though, would have been a boring discussion if we all just loved it! Who wants the marmite book next - or shall I send it home Claire? Yes I do agree Claire that most people have to keep their horse at livery - me included!- but the bit that Rally said that really stunned me was this:- " I know plenty of adults who never want to quit boarding their horses because for them, a big part of it all is the social scene at the barn." It had literally never ocurred to me that anyone would actually chose to keep their horse that way as opposed to having no choice in doing so. I found myself wondering, what with that part in the book, and several other modern type books I have read, plus Rally's RL observation, that perhaps that was part of horse owning that had changed the most since the days of the PT's and their ilk in my childhood. Perhaps it has become less about the relationship between you and your horse, and more about the social aspect. That would certainly fit in with the whole equine wardrobe of must haves that has appeared over the past decade or so, and sadly too, is the reason why so many more supposedly problem horses are in need of rehoming because they were simply a bad choice by the owner. Most interesting!!
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Post by Claire on Nov 15, 2014 22:10:01 GMT 1
I agree Kunuma for some of the younger generation (says grandma) horses are a social thing and even - God help us - a style/fashion thing. I'm hoping its still in the minority but maybe not. I feel however than Jani was not like that at all. Actually the whole thing about horses being a status/fashion thing is what puts me off a lot of modern pony books which do have characters like that (and not always the 'baddies' either!) For me though this book wasn't of that ilk at all. The girls didnt seem interested in buying fancy gear for their horses or going to posh shows, but in helping a distressed horse - even if a ghost horse - which I feel puts the book on a level with many of the traditional old rescue type pony stories. Well that's my take on it. Its defo a marmite book thats for sure.
Have really enjoyed this discussion. I think its been the most lively/debated one since we did A Dream of Fair Horses.
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Post by tintin on Nov 18, 2014 13:40:37 GMT 1
Mine just arrived yesterday from the US after 4 to 5 weeks (I should n't complain it only cost a penny!) With great self control I have not read the reviews above, hopefully will have read by Thursday so can contibute
The good news is that the positive review on the back of the jacket is from Pony Mad Book Lovers (fame at last Claire?)
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Post by Claire on Nov 18, 2014 22:04:29 GMT 1
Mine just arrived yesterday from the US after 4 to 5 weeks (I should n't complain it only cost a penny!) With great self control I have not read the reviews above, hopefully will have read by Thursday so can contibute The good news is that the positive review on the back of the jacket is from Pony Mad Book Lovers (fame at last Claire?) Thats interesting Tintin, I know she had used some of my quotes on her website but I didnt know it was on that particular book. What edition is that? Can't wait to hear your comments on the book!
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Post by tintin on Nov 19, 2014 17:50:49 GMT 1
My edition is the 2011 US Edition (paperback) from the , charmingly named, "Enchanted Pony Books" imprint. It is ISBN 978-0-9868471-0-3
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Post by Claire on Nov 21, 2014 14:22:09 GMT 1
Thanks Tintin. I thought you could get the Enchanted Pony Books in the UK. Well you certainly could when they were first published. Or possibly that was just the kindle editions.
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