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Post by Claire on Jul 9, 2010 18:54:11 GMT 1
Next reading circle book is The Perfect Distance by Kim Ablon Whitney This is our 'modern' selection. To find out moe about the book you can visit the author link on my website: kimablonwhitney.ponymadbooklovers.co.uk/If you would like to join in but don't have a copy of the book either post here and see if any copies are available to borrow, or you can buy it fairly cheap on Amazon. I will add the poll and start discussion in a couple of weeks time, or when everyone has had a chance to read it.
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Post by darkhorse on Jul 9, 2010 20:09:33 GMT 1
I will try and get one from Amazon. It looks good according to the reviews.
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Post by foxglove on Jul 19, 2010 9:21:50 GMT 1
I read it over the weekend and enjoyed it- can I write my thoughts while they're still fresh?
PS the girl on the front cover isn't in a very good position, is she?
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Post by Claire on Jul 19, 2010 10:03:48 GMT 1
Yes, feel free to start the ball rolling foxglove. Haffy and susan can join in as they have the book. The rest of us will tag along later when the mysterious missing copies turn up!
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Post by kunuma on Jul 19, 2010 12:33:43 GMT 1
Still no sign of the book, those ebay sellers have excelled themselves as the WORST ones I have ever dealt with - no contact either. Suppose I can't leave them neg feedback either as they actually say it takes them a fortnight to get round to posting stuff! Might need another interim short story Claire!
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Post by foxglove on Jul 19, 2010 15:26:36 GMT 1
In spite of having a low opinion of modern pony books, I did enjoy this. My first thought that it was perhaps more of a teenage (or YA as I think they brand them in the USA) novel with a horsey setting than an out and out pony book. Can’t think of any other pony book I’ve read containing the words “boobs” and “down there”! At 17 the main character is of course a bit older than the majority of pony book heroines, especially as teenage girls mature so quickly these days.
The straightforward I Must Win This Big Show narrative of the story is in itself nothing new (Jump To The Stars, Dream Of Fair Horses, Eventers Dream etc), but the setting on the modern American circuit, with its intense competition, sports shrinks, veterinary techniques and political context (cheap Hispanic labour also props up the US racing industry I think) gives it a different flavour to your average Pony Club gymkhana. It was pacey and when instructive (have to say I’d never heard of this type of Equitation, and “gymnastics” style jumping) it was lightly done.
Francie’s character and her dilemmas was very well drawn, as were most of the others, except perhaps the horses. The horses mainly seemed to be of a similar standard, with the difference being the rider- I guess a lot of professional stables compete in this manner, but the unique horsey personalities did not get a chance to fully shine through. I have to say I mentally mark a book down if the horses don’t have nice names- didn’t like any of these!
My main issue with contemporary books is the way they date so quickly- this was 2005 and the references to i:books etc will sound like antiques to future readers; copying a CD is already old school (not to me, I hasten to add- I am a Luddite). I guessed one American acronym (PB&J is peanut butter and jam [grotesque] I presume, but not sure about PDA on p 144?) I personally find the way nouns become verbs in American English rather grating; horses manuring and colicking indeed!
Overall it was an engrossing read and one I hope contemporary teenage readers would find thought provoking. Looking forward to hearing what you lot think...
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Post by susanb on Jul 19, 2010 16:01:43 GMT 1
Arrggh! I'm so far behind! I have been having internet issues for a few days, and didn't realize that you were starting this already (only just posted my Maltese Cat comments). I figured you'd be waiting till everyone had the book!
Anyway, I do want to re-read it before I write more fully, but a couple of quick responses to foxglove's comments:
Actually, peanut butter and jelly (Jam and jelly are used interchangably in the US. In New England, we tend to say jam, but jelly is more common elsewhere). And yes, it's completely revolting, as is it's evil twin, peanut butter and fluff (fluff is marshmallow paste in a jar, disgusting even on it's own).
- PDA is Personal Data Assistant...think Palm Pilot. Some of what people used PDAs for has been incorporated into the new generation of cell phones (calendar, short notes and memos to self, etc), more advanced stuff (like Word, Excel and Powerpoint viewing and editing) has moved to smartphones (Blackberry, iphone and the Palm Pilot's descendants, the Palm Pre and Palm Pixi).
- colicking is common, I've never even heard manuring....sounds like the pc police in action!
I don't mind when this (or any other book) includes mention of modern things....I think you're finding it irritating because it's about 10 minutes out of date, rather than 50 years out of date. Books are a reflection of the time and place in which they are written (or should be!), nothing occurs in a vacuum. When you read a book written in the 30s/40s and it talks about war-time rationing, you don't say "oh, that's soooo out of date", you say "it's of the period".
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Post by Buster on Jul 19, 2010 19:09:20 GMT 1
I don't have a copy but from the review it looks really good actually as I prefer horsey books with characters my age. But I agree the rider on the book cover is in a awful position, just look at her lower leg tut tut I always thought PDA was public display of affection but it sounds more likely to be the computer thing, anyway I look forward to reading more reviews
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Post by haffyfan on Jul 19, 2010 21:00:14 GMT 1
lol no time now but I did reread but think i forgot it already.....
I must say I had never heard of the method of 's.....?' (the grey robotic pony Katie leases ) sad end...is that common over there Susan? It's horrific! (sorry hope thats not a spoiler)
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Post by foxglove on Jul 20, 2010 9:46:06 GMT 1
Cheers Susan, I remembered that Americans call jam jelly, but didn't want to confuse everyone further. Biscuits and chips are other words that mean something different and caught me out when I was working over in Colorado. I did enjoy "smores" though- Graham crackers, marshmallows and chocolate over a camp fire!
I think it's the namechecking of top brands that jars on me in many contemporary books for young readers, although I think it is a distinctively American thing to use a brand name synonymously with the generic word (eg Tampax for tampon, Kleenex for tissue, Band Aid for plaster). A story can be of its era, but also timeless. I think Rowling did well not to mention email or too much obviously datable muggle technology in the HP series.
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Post by kunuma on Jul 20, 2010 10:48:38 GMT 1
I must say I had never heard of the method of 's.....?' (the grey robotic pony Katie leases ) sad end...is that common over there Susan? It's horrific! (sorry hope thats not a spoiler) What!?
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Post by Claire on Jul 20, 2010 11:13:16 GMT 1
Ooh I am going to be so far behind on this. Trying not to read the posts in case I get spoilers!
Re the missing book, kunuma, all sellers have to tick a box saying how long it will take them to send off the book when they list the item. This info will be highlighted if you go to the won section of your ebay account and click on the item and click on view purchased item. In the postage and packaging section there should be a bit saying 'estimated delivery' with the number of business days. Thats the bit they should be abiding by according to ebay rules. Maybe you could just email them and say you want a refund tho. Hmm you dont have much luck with ebay do you?!
I think I will order a copy off Amazon if there are any cheap ones so if yors doesnt turn up i will pass that one on to you.
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Post by Claire on Jul 20, 2010 11:18:36 GMT 1
Oh sod it I'm too nosey not to read all the posts even if they do have spoilers. Anyway by the time i get a copy of the book I will have already forgotten any spoilers anyhow!!! ;D
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Post by Claire on Jul 20, 2010 11:36:57 GMT 1
Interesting comments. I do agree with foxglove that a lot of refs to modern technology jar a bit in pony books. Not so bad in high tech thrilllers perhaps but it doesnt sit well with a pony story. It always strikes me as quite funny that about 70% of the plots of old pony books wouldn't have worked in a mobile phone era - I'm thinking of course of all of those books where the heroine galloped for help on her trusty steed. Now all they need do is make a quick phone call! ;D But I also agree with susan that its prob a 'closeness' thing as I do enjoy the out-dated customs in old books such as the telegrams in the Agatha Christie books or further back in the Victorian era the post which used to get there the same day and where they had about 5 posts a day (no need for email then!) As for marshmallow paste in a jar and mixing it with peanut butter....bleaghhh! Just rushing off to the loo to throw up!!!
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Post by susanb on Jul 20, 2010 13:19:34 GMT 1
I've decided to wait till you guys have got your copies to begin my re-read.....I don't want to forget what I was going to say! (all too easy, I'm afraid).
Grin....foxglove, you Brits to it too, just for different things....you've even turned Hoover into a verb "hoovering" instead of "vacuuming" , it's only when it's not you doing it that you even notice!! ;D ;D ;D
Re the modern tech....well, tech in and of itself doesn't play much of a part in a stables, though it certainly does in our lives. I wouldn't want to see an author be at pains to eliminate references that are appropriate to the era, but on the other hand, if a book was overloaded with them, it would essentially be an indication that the heroine was spending entirely too little time with her horse for it to be a horse book at all!
Claire, odd that you should mention Agatha Christie....I've been on a Miss Marple binge lately....read The Body in the Library, The Moving Finger and Nemisis in the space of a week.
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Post by Claire on Jul 20, 2010 19:29:16 GMT 1
Teehee susan, the reason it sprang to mind was cos i have been having a Poiroit binge!!! ;D
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Post by foxglove on Jul 21, 2010 9:50:26 GMT 1
Grin....foxglove, you Brits to it too, just for different things....you've even turned Hoover into a verb "hoovering" instead of "vacuuming" , it's only when it's not you doing it that you even notice!! ;D ;D ;D Yes, that's the classic one. I really can't think of any others in common British usage though. I recall a couple of recent ad campaigns where companies were quite obviously trying to substitute their brand name for a verb ("just Persil it" for washing powder and "Argos it" for reserving and buying through a catalogue depot). I don't think you can force language like that; it has to evolve naturally. It's a good point about mobile phones negating the need for most kids adventures! Perhaps children enjoy that other worldly element; I loved Enid Blyton stories whilst knowing full well me and my mates would never be allowed to wander off on the moors on a biking/camping/caravaning jaunt for weeks on end. It was always totally unrealistic.
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Post by darkhorse on Jul 24, 2010 12:31:48 GMT 1
I ordered a copy through Amazon and it hasn't arrived yet. I'm startuing to think there is a conspiracy going on! ;D If it does arrive I am happy to lend it to anyone after I have read it.
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Post by kunuma on Jul 26, 2010 13:48:22 GMT 1
I had given up hope and was composing a terse email demanding my money back, when it arrived!! I'm half way through, and not that I am obsessed or anything, but there were times it gets like Twilight with horses!! More self obsessed moralistic teenagers!!!
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Post by Claire on Jul 26, 2010 15:06:33 GMT 1
Hi all making a brief appearance on the library computer! Mine has arrived too!
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Post by Claire on Jul 29, 2010 14:45:33 GMT 1
Not really on topic but on the subject of these big booksellers being hopeless, ordered another book from Amazon from a big seller at the same time as The Perfect Distance and just received something completely different! Mail order is getting very hazardous! Anyway going to start the book soon and hopefully will have a computer soon so that I can post about it!
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Post by Claire on Aug 1, 2010 22:46:19 GMT 1
Read about a third of it so far and despite not usually liking books which are about ultra-competitive teenagers am really enjoying it so far. You have a point about Twilight kunuma as the heroine is cut from a similar cloth. 17 and hasn't even kissed a boy before?!!
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Post by kunuma on Aug 1, 2010 22:51:12 GMT 1
And she is so goody goody too!!
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Post by exmoorfan on Aug 2, 2010 16:17:27 GMT 1
Well. I loved this book. Can't make intelligent comments like you well read folks..lol Didn't think I would like it being American and modern. But preferred it to Riders. If thats modern.? I thought I may be bored by the concentration on jumping but it was well written.. Even though I didn't understand a lot of the American comps or terms.. Loved the spanish element Claire..!! ;D But didn't like the horrific end of the horse.. Hope that doesn't happen in America a lot.? Also thought the end was a bit tame.. You want to know what she does next.? Anyway Thanks to all who suggested we read it. Probably would of taken me years otherwise
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Post by kunuma on Aug 2, 2010 21:45:13 GMT 1
Talk about being divided by a common language - I found myself several times saying, she did what to what??? Just over little things too, "she cut the yarn from his braids with a seam ripper" Why do they say braids, when we say plaits?? Yarn for cotton ,and how do you undo plaits with a Mills and Boon novel?? Perhaps it is one of those funny little knives I have for taking stitches out of skin ( don't do sewing!) but that's a stitch cutter!! ;D ;D I know it is true to life as I remember watching a programme about the RL comps and the riders - and they were like that! But most of all I can never understand horse mad teenagers who think about boys all the time when there are horses around!
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Post by Claire on Aug 3, 2010 12:30:30 GMT 1
Finished it last night. Thanks to whoever recommended this a while back (haffy? Susan?) I started off thinking I wouldnt like it as I am not a big fan of teen novels or ultra competitive novels but I couldnt put it down. Very well written and much more intelligent than the average teen novel. Altho I think a bit more humour wouldnt have gone amiss - but then again the tone of the novel was quite dark so perhaps it wouldnt have sat with the rest of the plot. Very interesting in that it highlighted how intense the riding circuit was, even for children. I was shocked when I heard six figures to lease a horse for a year, ponies worth more than houses and sports psychologists, just for kids!!! I don't think its a healthy attitude at all. I know that the author did ride competitively and is a show judge, but the tone of the book is I think ambivalent to the world of teen competitive riding, if perhaps coming down on the negative side. Rob, for example who is the character who personifies that world the most is a horrible character. I think the incident with Stretch (which I don't doubt for a minute does go on), the horrific pushing parents, and the ending where Francie keeps her options open and goes to college, makes the reader doubt that the world of competition riding is that desirable. Francie certainly seems to be having more fun as a normal college kid than she did as a rider, and you suspect more fun than Tara will be having perhaps. In a way the ending reminds me a bit of Caroline Akrill's Eventer's trilogy in which Elaine also realises that competitive riding may not be the be all and end all of life! Yes, exmoorfan I did enjoy the spanish element. The Mexicans however seemed very down trodden, even the one who weren't illegal immigrants. Are they really looked down upon in America so much? Francie's dad had a huge chip on his shoulder which he passed on to her. I think it would have been more healthy to celebrate their Mexican heritage more than trying to hide it away. The main negative I have with the book is that the character of Francie was just too goody goody, are there really teenagers like that? She was such a party pooper, its not surprising she didnt have many friends. (In fact what was surprising was that she had any or that Colby fancied her!) The incident with the test in school was blown out of all proportion, who would worry about that? (And what kid keeps their past tests all neatly filed for gawds sake?!) You did feel like giving her an enormous kick up the backside and shouting 'get over yourself!' She was such a wimp too, especially the way she let Rob treat her. Also I thought the romance was a bit boring. There wasn't a lot of tension there, it wasnt like she had to choose between Colby and her riding or that he distracted her from her riding. Even her dad warning her off him sort of fizzled out. And there was zero sexual tension. They even kept their pants on skinny dipping! ;D But all in all a very good book by modern standards - tho still prefer the traditional ones.
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Post by foxglove on Aug 3, 2010 14:02:22 GMT 1
My experience of the US is based on working for three months in Colorado whilst a student, and travelling around for a couple of weeks afterwards. I worked as a housekeeper in a motel, and the staff were mainly British and Irish students on summer placements, and a couple of American students. At one point a lad joined us on the team, and an American colleague described him as "that's Joseph he's Mexican....." This was over ten years ago, but it did seem symptomatic of a Hispanic underclass there. I guess it may be similar to the attitude that a lot of Brits currently have to Poles who are willing to work harder for less money; and I think historically the Chinese in Australia and NZ.
I think that probably explains why Francie is a bit of a girly swot; immigrant communities often instill a strong work ethic in their children and are extremely aspirational in terms of education. Of course a teacher who is lazy enough to set the same test regularly is leaving it open to abuse by those who have older siblings!
The intensity of the riding circuit does seem quite joyless and clinical. They don't seem to hack round the countryside very often or ride for the fun of it. Dream of Fair Horses features a lot of intensive schooling for competition purposes, but it is more lyrically written.
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Post by susanb on Aug 3, 2010 20:00:19 GMT 1
finally got all the internet issues sorted out (hopefully they stay that way) and hundreds of emails waded through!
And now, of course, I'm late to the discussion (again...sigh).
I do really like this book....it's a bit more than a pony book really, as it looks at coming of age, personal and racial identity, ethics, family relationships, and, how can I put it....an individual's life: her whole life, and not just the slice that deals with riding and horses.
As much as I love a traditional pony story (and I do, I've got shelves of them to prove it, too!), the reality is that nobody, no matter how pony mad, should have NOTHING but ponies in their lives or in their minds. Can you even imagine what such a person would grow up to be like? Someone who read nothing but pony books, cared nothing for music or science or history or the world around them, had no interest in any friends (romantic or otherwise) outside of the horse world. You'd run a mile to avoid them, even if you yourself loved horses. It's simply not NATURAL.
So, when I come across a horse story that portrays a character with the multifaceted life that real people do have, I appreciate it, as I did this one. I think the fictional character that I'm most reminded of is, oddly, Velvet Brown (National Velvet)....people often think of that story as total wish fullfilment....winning the horse in a raffle, as well as being bequeathed all those horses and ponies, winning the Grand National, etc., but it's as much about a life having chapters, and knowing when to turn the page and move on, as anything else. Remember Velvet's mother, who had swum the Channel in her youth, counceled her on just that point.
In this case it's Francie, who has competed honorably in her last year of eligibility and taken Reserve Champion, who turns the page and looks at what she wants for the rest of her life...horses? Maybe...she keeps that option as she's going to continue riding with Susie and is riding on her college team. But maybe economics....she's got an interest and the ability, and enrolls in Swarthmore to see where that may lead. Maybe she won't make it as a grand prix rider, or won't find that she has the desire to do so.....there are more adult amateurs competing in the US in various riding disciplines than in any other sport...that might be an avenue she'll wind up persuing. At any rate, she won't have a narrow life, a life without scope or possibilites.
A couple of things:
This girl is a straight A student, clearly very, very smart, and with the opportunity for a first rate education at a top school, most likely with a large, even a full, scholarship. This is something she's worked for all her life, just as she's worked at her riding. With a charge of cheating against her, she wouldn't have got into Swarthmore, or any other elite college (and, oh yes, Swarthmore is very elite). She might get into a lesser college, but there certainly wouldn't be any scholarship money. Basically, that option, that avenue to a brilliant future would be gone. And for what. Giving some jock who was too lazy to study the answers to a test? Really? I wouldn't have been sleeping well either....
In America? Anywhere there are large amounts of insurance money to be had, I'm pretty sure it happens. People have killed their husbands, their wives, their parents to collect on insurance policies, you really think there aren't people who have killed animals for the same reason? You have a very optomistic view of human nature ;D (Can you tell I've been reading a lot of Agatha Christie's Miss Marple lately?)
a quick aside: Mexicans would never refer to themselves as being Spanish, any more than a US citizen who had some English ancestors would describe themselves as English....it's totally inaccurate.
Re the immigration issue...I think foxglove hit it (or at least came close) with this comment:
In some areas of the country, specifically where there has been a large influx of Mexicans, illlegal or legal, there is definite resentment. I think it is a basic fear that comes when immigrants arrive in large enough numbers to substantially alter the social/economic status quo. As foxglove pointed out, it's happened elsewhere; and it's not the first time it's happened here....if you think the Irish were welcomed with open arms during the Famine, think again. There were signs on doors that said "no Irish need apply", "no dogs or Irishmen", etc. There were riots in New York between newly freed African Americans and the newly arrived Irish, who were compteting for the same jobs.
Totally agree re the romance. I think the problem is that he was put in there as a plot device....to draw direct parallels/contrasts between Francie's life and her father's. Her dad fell in love with a white woman who behaved shamefully, abandoning her baby daughter without so much as a glance back (she has even sent a card with her new happy family to Rob...which indicates to me that she hasn't even kept track of the location of Francie and her father, and is unaware that they're still at the stables). To provide counterpoint, Francie also becomes attracted to/involved with one of the white clients, but things are different this time. The guy isn't a jerk, Francie is too damn smart to be getting pregnant at 17.....she doesn't need to make the same mistakes her father did, even though she comes to understand why he made the choices he did. All of which foreshadows and points to the final events: Francie refuses to cheat, even though it's a small thing that would never be known to anyone but her and Rob, (the whole test thing is kind of a set up for this as well), and, finally recognising him for what he is, decides to do any future riding with Susie.
So, it all makes sense, but since Colby is treated as a plot device, rather than a whole, rounded character, the romance is totally flat. More development of Colby as an individual and the romance between him and Frankie generally would have made this a better book.
I found that pretty believable, myself. Rob is described as being to the equestrian world what Bela Karolyi was to the world of gymnastics. For people who's goal is to compete on the international/Olympic level, a top coach is a must, and to have the best of the best....well, someone with that kind of ambition would put up with almost anything.
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Post by Claire on Aug 3, 2010 20:20:06 GMT 1
I guess Francie is the so much the direct opposite of my persona which is why I cant identify that well with her. Probably I would be an awful character in a pony book! Self-opinionated, bolshy, a rule breaker and certainly as a teenager a bit of a party girl (too ancient now!) I don't even consider what she did cheating, just giving some guy an old test of hers. Its not like she sneaked into the class room to look at the test questions before a test. As foxglove said the teacher was to blame for not changing the questions. After all when studying for O and A levels we practiced on past papers. It just didnt ring that true for me. Mind you I wouldnt have been brow-beaten into giving that twerp the paper in the first place!
Susan, as you are our American riding expert, could you explain more about the competitions. Dont know much about US comp riding and not really sure about the flat work and the gymnastics bit. Apologies for my ignorance!
PS me and exmoorfan were referring to the Spanish language not race as we both speak it a bit. Wern't being racist!!!
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Post by foxglove on Aug 4, 2010 10:18:01 GMT 1
Yes, I would like to hear more about the competition elements, as that was all new to me.
I thought the character of Rob was pretty realistic- many top coaches probably are quite one dimensional in the way they have to ruthlessly focus on winning and nothing else.
Claire, you may have unearthed a new thread topic- what kind of character would you be in a pony book?!
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